Can they really do this to instructors?

ThomasH

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The last two places I worked required instructors to be present between certain hours but didn't pay them unless they were actually teaching a lesson. They only paid for actual lesson time, and then barely above min wage. So you could be ready to work from 10 to 4 but then only get paid 2 hours if that's all the lessons you taught. I get it that they're anxious about having enough staffing for unpredictable attendance numbers. And ok, you might get a couple of runs in between line ups. But it just doesn't seem fair to me. A lot of peeps just stew about it until they decide to bail completely. Can they get away with this?
 

Coach13

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Yes they can get away with it and do, I assume because that’s the conditions the instructor agrees to when hired. At my local resorts, private lessons aside, I think they refer to it was being present for “line up”. If they are needed to do a lesson they get paid. If not, they get to go free ski. If they aren’t needed for lessons that day at all after being present for line up, they get paid for a set amount of time.
 

scott43

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There's a reason why only 13 year olds caddie at golf courses..if they caddie at all anymore.. I mean, not offence..but if they can get people to agree to those terms..good for them. But really, maybe time to find a different occupation..
 

surfsnowgirl

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That's how it works. However, I don't do it for serious money. I get to ski when I don't have a lesson and the other perks are excellent so I never mind when I don't get a lessons cause I'd be there skiing anyway. I have a problem right foot which makes all day teaching on the carpet difficult for me. I have it a bit easier because I only work half days as an instructor. I work mornings so I go in teach the morning session and then I'm free to have lunch and free ski in the afternoon. This works perfectly for me. Most of the instructors are on call all day so if they don't have a lesson and don't want to free ski they have to wait around till the next lineup time. I teach at magic and Bromley and have my half day arrangements with both. Bromley in particular has quite a few instructors so if there's an excess of us on duty they will ask if anyone wants to be cut loose. When you go get paid that's nice too as it's gas and beer money. The tips are cool too. Most of us have 'real jobs'' so I don't think any of us complain. I always joke about the 3 days of paid training Bromley gives us at the start of every season that is the most money I make all winter lol. One of the instructors also works on the ski shop as it's set times and she's paid for all of it so she makes more there. When our internationals go back at Bromley sometimes they ask us to do other jobs and we never mind because it's more consistent pay than when we are on call all day.

None of us complain as the perks are why we do this, Any monetary compensation is fun money.
 
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DanoT

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There's a reason why only 13 year olds caddie at golf courses..if they caddie at all anymore.. I mean, not offence..but if they can get people to agree to those terms..good for them. But really, maybe time to find a different occupation..
^^^LOL I was thinking about my days as a 13 y.o. caddie even before I read this post.
 

karlo

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Where I instruct, we get a pass for ourselves, and for a great enough commitment of days, passes for our family. Plus, family members get free group lessons. One gets paid for instructing, training, manning a desk, helping with junior program registration, putting up fences or snow toys. But, if we’re just standing around waiting for an instruction or free skiing, no, we don’t get paid. Some are in it for the perks and hope not to get a lesson. That happened this weekend. I wasn’t going to get picked at lineup because I had taught in the morning. But, no one wanted to teach in the afternoon, so I had the pleasure teaching the NTS. Didn’t think we’d make it. But, we got it done, finally linking turns on the last run of a 1-1/2 hr lesson. And, I got paid to do it too!

If you’re not getting valuable perks, I’d say it’s fair you get paid to be there.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Depends on the state. If you have to be there, you should be getting paid - something. It might be pretty minimal, and like I said, it depends on your state.
 

Ken_R

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That's how it works. However, I don't do it for serious money. I get to ski when I don't have a lesson and the other perks are excellent so I never mind when I don't get a lessons cause I'd be there skiing anyway. I have a problem right foot which makes all day teaching on the carpet difficult for me. I have it a bit easier because I only work half days as an instructor. I work mornings so I go in teach the morning session and then I'm free to have lunch and free ski in the afternoon. This works perfectly for me. Most of the instructors are on call all day so if they don't have a lesson and don't want to free ski they have to wait around till the next lineup time. I teach at magic and Bromley and have my half day arrangements with both. Bromley in particular has quite a few instructors so if there's an excess of us on duty they will ask if anyone wants to be cut loose. When you go get paid that's nice too as it's gas and beer money. The tips are cool too. Most of us have 'real jobs'' so I don't think any of us complain. I always joke about the 3 days of paid training Bromley gives us at the start of every season that is the most money I make all winter lol. One of the instructors also works on the ski shop as it's set times and she's paid for all of it so she makes more there. When our internationals go back at Bromley sometimes they ask us to do other jobs and we never mind because it's more consistent pay than when we are on call all day.

None of us complain as the perks are why we do this, Any monetary compensation is fun money.

This is why I think Ski Instruction Costs (for the consumer) at major resorts (at least here in Colorado) are a complete ripoff. I would love to support ski instructors with my business but i would be just helping stockholders get second homes...
 

Chris V.

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The last two places I worked required instructors to be present between certain hours but didn't pay them unless they were actually teaching a lesson. They only paid for actual lesson time, and then barely above min wage. So you could be ready to work from 10 to 4 but then only get paid 2 hours if that's all the lessons you taught. I get it that they're anxious about having enough staffing for unpredictable attendance numbers. And ok, you might get a couple of runs in between line ups. But it just doesn't seem fair to me. A lot of peeps just stew about it until they decide to bail completely. Can they get away with this?
Can they get away with this? Maybe--employers get away with all kinds of illegal crap, but what you describe is a big time violation of federal wage and hour laws. I won't get into lawyer mode discussing details, but this is the kind of situation that often leads to class actions or mass actions to recover unpaid wages long after the fact.

Shades of On the Waterfront.
 

crgildart

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Free skiing
Locker room and gear storage on site
Training clinics
Discount and free lift tickets at other resorts
Pro form discount gear
Cool jacket and other swag from reps
You're being compensated for showing up at lineups even of you don't get paid to teach an hour or two every time.
 

surfsnowgirl

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This is why I think Ski Instruction Costs (for the consumer) at major resorts (at least here in Colorado) are a complete ripoff. I would love to support ski instructors with my business but i would be just helping stockholders get second homes...
I hear ya. My 2 employers are independently owned and our lesson costs are what I consider reasonable. I looked into taking a lesson in Tahoe and Colorado and based on cost decided against it.
 

mdf

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You're being compensated for showing up at lineups even of you don't get paid to teach an hour or two every time.
In reality, perhaps. In law, I doubt it. Does the employer assign a monetary value (and collect corresponding taxes on) those perks?
You are probably better off with the status quo than with whatever bookkeeping they would come up with if pushed.
In many states there is also a 4 hour minimum if you are required to appear.
 

crgildart

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In reality, perhaps. In law, I doubt it. Does the employer assign a monetary value (and collect corresponding taxes on) those perks?
You are probably better off with the status quo than with whatever bookkeeping they would come up with if pushed.
In many states there is also a 4 hour minimum if you are required to appear.
A lot of those laws pertain to FULL TIME employees only.
 

markojp

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In my experience, lesson time is paid at my teach rate. Line up, helping with fencing, etc is paid at a non teach rate. Our state min wage is now $13 I think. Our L3 teach rate is considerably more, and there are additional hourly bonuses for request privates. My son and I get passes. There are no discounted lessons for him.
 

crgildart

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You are probably better off with the status quo than with whatever bookkeeping they would come up with if pushed.
yep, you'd get W4s saying you were paid the full value of a walk up day ticket each day you showed up at the resort whether or not you actually went to the lineups.

When I first started all candidates had to pay out of pocket for 6 weeks of dry land training in October and early November. The 50% of folks who managed to make the cut mid November and get hired got that training cost refunded in our first paychecks. Folks who didn't make it were SOL.
 

Ski&ride

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Can they do this to instructors?

Yes if the instructors will take it. Those who don’t like it? Just don’t do it.

Seems there’re plenty of them who are willing to do it. And many really relish the “prestige” that came with it!

In practice, if you like to ski there, and will be paying for a season pass anyway, having to show up at line up is probably worth the value of the pass. And if you miss a line up or two, will they kick you off the rank? Nah.

I “taught” for 2 seasons at a hill down the road from my house. It’s a tiny hill and there’s not much fun free skiing there. So, after a few too many times of no lesson and no fun skiing, I stop showing up.

The perks wasn’t worth the time I spend there. The “cool jacket”? Well, I’ll let others wear it. Sure, I can see all the kids look at me walking by in the jacket like I’m god. But “god” at minimum wage is still minimum wage!

Did I enjoy the teaching? Yes. But I’m not going to support a system borderlinning exploitation.

That said, I once got a really fat tip. That makes me understand why some others would do it. Had the school didn’t screw up the client’s request (for me) for the next weekend, my enthusiasm might had been way higher.
 
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