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The flip side is beginners thinking they are "supposed" to ski the zipper line, and feeling completely defeated when they can't...
Well, that pretty much describes learning to ski in any terrain. Rather than being defeated, I'd hope folks would take it as a challenge, like learning anything in life!

or feeling they're being given some sort of "lesser" option when instructors teach them different tactics. (Although arguably you may need to master those tactics on the way to the zipper line. I assume.) This describes my experience.
I'm not an instructor, but I've taught folks how to ski bumps informally, the same way I learned. I don't know if it's the best way, but it's in the zipper line learning one bump at a time. You first can stay in the zipper line one bump, then two, then three... Keep working on it. The terrain will tell you if you are doing it right, with a few tips from your buddies.

*nod* I think part of the drill is to turn the bumps into a pump track, where you need to generate energy on the down side to get you up the up side. At least, that's how I interpret it. *OR* when you switch directions, try to get some speed on the turn ;-)

It feels like the pump track, but rather than generating energy, you are absorbing energy to control speed. Bump skiing is all about speed control, especially when trying to be low impact. Keep your skis on the snow just like you keep your tires on the ground at the pump track!
 
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Hmm... that brings up something I just realized I'm assuming, but maybe shouldn't be. Does zipper line bump skiing have to be "bang, bang, bang"? Or can it be slow (or slowish at least) and controlled?

I've been assuming it could be done in a more controlled fashion. If we're talking about high speed zipper line banging, then I don't even want to try that with all the knee problems I've had.

For a proficient bump skier, it's much easier to ski the zipper line slowly, smoothly, and with less impact. You just don't see them doing it very often because speed is a big part of the challenge of high-level bump skiing.

Once you master the zipper line, then you try to go faster and faster. The goal is to always be in control and smooth, but as you push your limits, you'll end up bashing a bit when you are on the edge of control. If you want to go fast in the bumps, that's part of the learning process.

Personally, I rarely push my speed in the bumps anymore. I'm more focused on skiing smoothly, efficiently, and with low impact. This has led me to what I think of as endurance bump skiing, with the goal of skiing bump runs top-to-bottom non-stop. This forces me to be as efficient as possible and turns bump skiing into a great workout. The result is I'm skiing at, maybe, 70% throttle when endurance bump skiing. Mostly in the zipper line, of course!
 
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Blake has a fantastic video where he demonstrates skiing bumps at different speeds and with different styles. It's perfect for this conversation:


Note how incredibly smooth and low impact he is when he slows down in the zipper line. His skiing there is the perfect style for a beginning bump skier to visualize, IMO.

Also, note his comments at the end saying that at the highest level bump skiing is direct and fast, another way of saying in the zipper line.
 

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Blake has a fantastic video where he demonstrates skiing bumps at different speeds and with different styles. It's perfect for this conversation:


Note how incredibly smooth and low impact he is when he slows down in the zipper line. His skiing there is the perfect style for a beginning bump skier to visualize, IMO.

Also, note his comments at the end saying that at the highest level bump skiing is direct and fast, another way of saying in the zipper line.

I remember when this came out. I love seeing someone who can ski bumps many different ways showing the range of possibilites. Last (or the one before?) @Josh Matta posted a vid that he emphasized one particular style of bump skiing. Iwas hoping it was going to be the first of a series comparing styles, along these lines. It would be particularly interesting because they are both high level skiers but with very different points of view.
 
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Thanks @tball! I remember Josh's video, but caught myself thinking that must not have been a zipper line he was skiing... would you call that a zipper line even though it meandered a bit? I suppose he wasn't taking multiple bumps at a turn.
 

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When we are in lessons, and happen to be doing a bump session, one of the things our instructor tells us is not to ski the zipper line. Too easy. We will do medium radius , constant turn shape for a lot of time , turning anywhere on the bump we happen to be. Or maybe we will do a drill of two turns on every bump. But never the zipper line
 
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When we are in lessons, and happen to be doing a bump session, one of the things our instructor tells us is not to ski the zipper line. Too easy. We will do medium radius , constant turn shape for a lot of time , turning anywhere on the bump we happen to be. Or maybe we will do a drill of two turns on every bump. But never the zipper line
Wow, it sounds like you need a new instructor.

To the beginning bumpers which are the intended audience of this thread, if your instructor starts feeding you any anti-zipper line cool-ade, I'd suggest you go back to the ski school desk and politely ask for an instructor who knows something about skiing bumps.
 
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Thanks @tball! I remember Josh's video, but caught myself thinking that must not have been a zipper line he was skiing... would you call that a zipper line even though it meandered a bit? I suppose he wasn't taking multiple bumps at a turn.
You are welcome!

I'd love to hear from Josh if he think's it was a zipper line. It's somewhat hard to see the bump spacing. Is he turning around them, making wider turns between them like the guy in the Altracks Acadamy video I posted above, or maybe a little of both?

Whichever, it's a nice example of how you can ski the bumps smoothly with low impact.
 
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Well, that pretty much describes learning to ski in any terrain. Rather than being defeated, I'd hope folks would take it as a challenge, like learning anything in life!

I'm not an instructor, but I've taught folks how to ski bumps informally, the same way I learned. I don't know if it's the best way, but it's in the zipper line learning one bump at a time. You first can stay in the zipper line one bump, then two, then three... Keep working on it. The terrain will tell you if you are doing it right, with a few tips from your buddies.

So, to respond to both of these quotes - my formative memories of attempting bumps were with a high school boyfriend who had skied since he was a toddler and had no idea how he did it. We had the usual S.O. dynamics when one is attempting to teach the other, except we were teenagers, with all the (lack of) social skills and emotional IQ that implies. So a lot of my thoughts may stem from this. Then again, this may not be an atypical learning experience. Maybe minus the teenage part.
 

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You are welcome!

I'd love to hear from Josh if he think's it was a zipper line. It's somewhat hard to see the bump spacing. Is he turning around them, making wider turns between them like the guy in the Altracks Acadamy video I posted above, or maybe a little of both?

Whichever, it's a nice example of how you can ski the bumps smoothly with low impact.

Since the title was SLOW line fast, I don't think he would consider that zipper line.
 

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Wow, it sounds like you need a new instructor.

To the beginning bumpers which are the intended audience of this thread, if your instructor starts feeding you any anti-zipper line cool-ade, I'd suggest you go back to the ski school desk and politely ask for an instructor who knows something about skiing bumps.

You are entitled to believe what you want regarding zipper-line vs. other bumps skiing techniques and what can be considered "proper", "high level', etc.

I'll just leave this debate with a little anecdote though. A couple seasons ago I was skiing at Vermont's Mad River Glen which is known for very little grooming and thus lots of bump runs. Some guy by the name of Jonny Moseley happened to be there that day. He parked himself on Chute trail (right under the lift) and was shouting encouragement at everybody, regardless of how they skied bumps. He made no effort to identify himself (I had no idea who it was until later). I have no idea why he was there, but he seemed pretty genuinely stoked to be sharing some mogul love with the general public, not one of whom was skiing anything close to a zipper line with any sort of consistency.

I'm thinking Jonny knows something about the merits of the zipper line vs. other methods. At least on that particular day, he didn't seem to give a rat's ass.

Ski 'em however you want. I'm out.
 
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You are entitled to believe what you want regarding zipper-line vs. other bumps skiing techniques and what can be considered "proper", "high level', etc.

I'll just leave this debate with a little anecdote though. A couple seasons ago I was skiing at Vermont's Mad River Glen which is known for very little grooming and thus lots of bump runs. Some guy by the name of Jonny Moseley happened to be there that day. He parked himself on Chute trail (right under the lift) and was shouting encouragement at everybody, regardless of how they skied bumps. He made no effort to identify himself (I had no idea who it was until later). I have no idea why he was there, but he seemed pretty genuinely stoked to be sharing some mogul love with the general public, not one of whom was skiing anything close to a zipper line with any sort of consistency.

I'm thinking Jonny knows something about the merits of the zipper line vs. other methods. At least on that particular day, he didn't seem to give a rat's ass.

Ski 'em however you want. I'm out.

I also don't give a rat's ass about how anyone skis. I never said I did, and haven't been critical of anyone's skiing. I'm happy to see folks skiing bumps any way they choose.

I do have opinions about what I believe is the highest level of bump skiing. I'm also bothered by the anti-zipper line misinformation that is far too common and presented in some posts in this thread. I'm not sure why folks are so overly sensitive about that.

If people feel differently It would be useful for beginning bumpers to see examples of the way they might aspire to eventually aspire to ski bumps.

So, again, it's these statements from an instructor I strongly disagree with:
When we are in lessons, and happen to be doing a bump session, one of the things our instructor tells us is not to ski the zipper line. Too easy. We will do medium radius , constant turn shape for a lot of time , turning anywhere on the bump we happen to be. Or maybe we will do a drill of two turns on every bump. But never the zipper line

Do any instructors out there think you should tell your students not to ski the zipper line? That's it's "too easy?" One should never ski the zipper line?

I would hope an instructor would get laughed out of any respectable ski school with such statements.
 
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You are entitled to believe what you want regarding zipper-line vs. other bumps skiing techniques and what can be considered "proper", "high level', etc.
Kevin, I did a search of my posts and I never used the word "proper." That's not what I believe. Sorry if it came across that way. Could you please correct that misquote.
 

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FWIW.

I suck at bumps. No doubt about it. But I've watched bump skiing competitors doing their thing. And I've also seen ski instructors who can somehow ski the bumps like they're not even there by picking the perfect line. They ski these wide, beautiful, round turns that might encompass 3 or 5 bumps. It's like they found the groomer hiding in the bump run.

I have to admit that on some level, I find the latter at least as impressive as the former.
 

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Hey, that's my line. :D

I love that line! When I follow someone who can find that line, I briefly look like I can ski bumps, too!
 
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Since the title was SLOW line fast, I don't think he would consider that zipper line.
You're probably right. That got me thinking how zipper line is overloaded.

There is the zipper line, a physical path through the bumps. There is also skiing with a zipper line technique, typically associated with skiing you see in a bump competition.

Josh isn't skiing with a zipper line technique. But, is it possible to ski the slow line fast within the zipper line? I'm not completely clear on that terminology, but one can certainly ski the zipper line slow or fast and with a variety of turn shapes.
 
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You're probably right. That got me thinking how zipper line is overloaded.

There is the zipper line, a physical path through the bumps. There is also skiing with a zipper line technique, typically associated with skiing you see in a bump competition.

Josh isn't skiing with a zipper line technique. But, is it possible to ski the slow line fast within the zipper line? I'm not completely clear on that terminology, but one can certainly ski the zipper line slow or fast and with a variety of turn shapes.
I need to defend the dignity of the zipper line. At the highest level, the zipper line is the way bumps are intended to be skied.

well considering the highest level is a subjectively defined form of competition....once you are willing to look past it objectively there are faster way of skiing bumps, there are slower ways of skiing bumps, there are less impact full ways of skiing bumps, there are also many ways to ski awkward bumps, as well as way to ski bumps not in everyone else line. Intend to be skied is pretty strong statement. I never ski on what other people perceived intents are, my goals are to ski and teach people how to ski either efficiently, low impact, and with as much dynamics as possible at a given speed.


You're probably right. That got me thinking how zipper line is overloaded.

There is the zipper line, a physical path through the bumps. There is also skiing with a zipper line technique, typically associated with skiing you see in a bump competition.

Josh isn't skiing with a zipper line technique. But, is it possible to ski the slow line fast within the zipper line? I'm not completely clear on that terminology, but one can certainly ski the zipper line slow or fast and with a variety of turn shapes.


To me zipperline is skiing one turn per bump, no matter who slow or fast that it is, or how shaped or skidded that it is. By my definition even that super slow bump skiing is the zipper line, its just done in such a way that is the polar opposite of tactics and technique of someone like Blake or a WC bump competition. If someone defines zipperline skiing as comp bump skiing, then no, my skiing is not that. heck even my faster skiing is not that.

Tactics

my video = Slow line fast, even beyond that basic concept to the point where I am finishing a turn up hill and really emphasizing tipping down the hill
Trad Zipper line = Fast line fast, all the speed control is done by heel pushing and sliding sideways. Their right tail go right to not go left.

Technique

my video = edge to edge skiing(As carved as possible), using leg rotary with my pelvis and shoulder down the hill and consequence of both leg steering and what PMTSer call CA/CB, the pivot point is under my foot. Flexion and extension is still there but due to line choices it is not nearly a extreme nor does it have to be.

Traditional bump skiing = pelvis rotary, with a rotation around the tips of the skis. Shoulders face down the hill, but the pelvis does not. Its not super obvious as the way the skis point down the hill is more limited than how my ski point down the hill IE my turns are much more complete. Edge set to edge set with no shape between the edge sets and almost no edging prior to the fall line. I have no intent to ever actually teach this to anyone, or to strive to do it myself. I personally want to be skiing till I die and any impact is bad.

The reality is ski however you want. I do what I do because I feel objectively its the best way to things, if someone else wants to ski to their aesthetics or someone else's aesthetics that is their prerogative, just do not expect me to be kind just for the sake of being kind. I think your question of is there a slow line fast zipper line can be answered as this.

IF you think zipperline is one turn per bump then yes you can ski a slow line fast zipper line

If you think zipperline is a direct route being done quickly the hill, then NO there is no way to ski that in a way using slow fast. I would go so far to say that they are basically opposite intents.
 

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