Bumps for Advanced Skiers

[markojp]

Do any instructors out there think you should tell your students not to ski the zipper line? That's it's "too easy?" One should never ski the zipper line?

I would hope an instructor would get laughed out of any respectable ski school with such statements.

Sure,it sounds silly at face value, but it's tough without knowing the context and tone of the statement, the make up of the class, and the classes own preconceptions of the 'only' outcome. Sometimes a statement that creates an 'oh yeah?' challenge can be pretty fun. We also might have missed the part later that said, "now that I've said and done that, let me prove us wrong!" That can be fun as well!


I mean this looks fun too...

 

[Slim]

So, again, it's these statements from an instructor I strongly disagree with:


Do any instructors out there think you should tell your students not to ski the zipper line? That's it's "too easy?" One should never ski the zipper line?

I would hope an instructor would get laughed out of any respectable ski school with such statements.

@tball, @graham418 didnt say his instructor said to never ski the zipper line, he said his instructor told them in class, that they should do a different drill, that. The zipper line was to easy. Sounds to me like this is an expert level class, where the students are comfortable skiing the zipper line, and the instructor is forcing them out of their comfort zone, and making them do different things as a skill building excercise. Doing this like that in a class, does not mean the instructor is opposed to someone skiing the zipper line, when free skiing.

A class, and drills are learning tools, application is another thing.

 

[T-Square]

This is a new thread from the thread I Just Took My First Bump Lesson ... This Is Why You Should, Too in the New to Skiing forum.

 

[Seldomski]

@tball - Thanks for sharing your thoughts and especially this video:

Blake has a fantastic video where he demonstrates skiing bumps at different speeds and with different styles. It's perfect for this conversation:


Note how incredibly smooth and low impact he is when he slows down in the zipper line. His skiing there is the perfect style for a beginning bump skier to visualize, IMO.

Also, note his comments at the end saying that at the highest level bump skiing is direct and fast, another way of saying in the zipper line.

I have never before seen a video that shows a progression from 'carved' or rounded turns in bumps toward a zipper line technique. Thank you!! Note that this progression is shown at about 1 minute into the video. Very interesting stuff and something I hope to work toward.

The key point seems to be (and @Josh Matta is agreeing) that you should ski 1 turn per bump if you want to get into zipper line or more direct (in the fall line) bump skiing.

You can also see how skiing more than 1 bump per turn has a 'top end' look that doesn't change much. In my experience, it also doesn't work too well in really big, tall/deep bumps.

 

[BornToSki683]

Folks that don’t ski the zipper, can’t. Period. If they could they would.

For someone that is capable of skiing the zipper with low impact ( yes that is possible and you can be pretty old too ) they will nearly always choose to ski the zipper because it’s more fun. It IS the true nature of what it means to ski bumps, anyone capable of doing it knows that to be the case.

When I see instructors teaching the brain dead philosophy of avoiding the zipper it makes me cringe. For two reasons, for one thing they are not teaching bump technique. They are just showing someone how to take their mediocre groomer technique and make it down a bump run using avoidance tactics. That is not a bump clinic, that is a class on how to survive a bump run your friends drag you on when you don’t know what you’re doing.

The second reason I cringe is because non zipper skiers have positively RUINED the zipper lines at many resorts to the point that it’s often difficult to even find a great zipper line anymore on most runs, skiers are traversing all over the place and making close outs. A good bumper can deal with it but these close outs make it even harder for people to learn how to ski the zipper or even want to, exasterbaring the learning curve even more.

 

[Josh Matta]

so whats your saying is zipper line technique is limiting and can be screwed up by other people? Shouldnt we ski in such a way that no matter is in front of us we are able to handle it. that BTW I am one of those people that literally try to round lines out, I love watching heel pushers fall.

Curious is Sebastion skiing the zipperline in his video? Do you think I am skiing the zipperline?

 

[Josh Matta]

@tball - Thanks for sharing your thoughts and especially this video:



I have never before seen a video that shows a progression from 'carved' or rounded turns in bumps toward a zipper line technique. Thank you!! Note that this progression is shown at about 1 minute into the video. Very interesting stuff and something I hope to work toward.

The key point seems to be (and @Josh Matta is agreeing) that you should ski 1 turn per bump if you want to get into zipper line or more direct (in the fall line) bump skiing.

You can also see how skiing more than 1 bump per turn has a 'top end' look that doesn't change much. In my experience, it also doesn't work too well in really big, tall/deep bumps.

There are times when one turn per bump simply isnt desirable....

Sometimes bumps are so widely spaced that GS turning and jumping is the easiest way. Sometime they are so icey that many turns on the bumps backside fin is more desirable. Since we have some awful icey bumps that may be the next video a demo on a good way to deal with that.

 

[BornToSki683]

that BTW I am one of those people that literally try to round lines out, I love watching heel pushers fall

Zipperline can and should be skied with round lines. If you are not able to do so then please see above

 

[BornToSki683]

so whats your saying is zipper line technique is limiting and can be screwed up by other People

You have it backwards. Folks that are capable of skiing the zipper line can easily ski around a close out on a moments notice if they desire. The inverse cannot be said about people incapable of skiing the zipper. Yes the incapable skiers do, to a certain extent, ruin the experience for zipper-capable skiers by mangling the bump field into kaos and as I said this mangling further discourages learning skiers from even trying the zipper at all.

 

[dbostedo]

For someone that is capable of skiing the zipper with low impact ... they will nearly always choose to ski the zipper because it’s more fun.

I'm curious, as a novice in bumps... for those of you that are good bump skiers, do you agree with this?

I ask, because I've heard similar from folks that like to ski straight down the fall line in regular turns, who can't understand why someone might meander all over the place on a run. But I LIKE to meander even when I could head straight down the fall line. I'm not sure that's really comparable though.

 

[BornToSki683]

The question, as it relates to this thread, is whether you're meandering because you just like the variety or meandering because you are somehow incapable of staying within a corridor.

One caution, if you meander around, you do open yourself up to being hit by a faster skier that can't predict what you're going to do next.

 

[PisteOff]

Hey here’s another idea let’s teach new powder skiers that the best way to learn how to ski powder is to criss cross the entire snow field in big traverses with safe turns at either side. (Sarcasm smiley here)

View media item 2027

 

[dbostedo]

The question, as it relates to this thread, is whether you're meandering because you just like the variety or meandering because you are somehow incapable of staying within a corridor.

One caution, if you meander around, you do open yourself up to being hit by a faster skier that can't predict what you're going to do next.

I'm meandering because I'm looking around thinking "that little lip over there looks nice" or "the snow looks better over there" or "I need to miss that ice patch I hit last time". Skiing straight down the fall line every time is boring. (Besides which, like strikeouts, it's fascist!

And yes, I'm aware that I might be frustrating someone behind me... I try to be congnizant of when it's crowded and keep an eye out, even though I have the right of way.

Circling back around... So given that I'm choosing to meander, do good bump skiers do the same?

 

[crgildart]

Doing drills NOT skiing the zipper line goes a long way to learning recovery techniques for those instances when you get knocked out of it or have to pop out to avoid obstacles like .... people.... Spending time intentionally taking inefficient lines enhances creativity and expands your tool box... but only if you're already pretty comfortable rocking the ruts.

 

[BornToSki683]

My caution wasn’t about frustrating anyone it was about avoiding getting hit by someone that is not good enough to avoid someone making unpredictable movements around the run. Yes you have the right of way but accidents still happen, people are trying to come from behind and might very well be trying to avoid you when suddenly you decide to meander right into their path. Just something to think about.

I look over my shoulder every time I do anything other then staying in a fixed corridor.

 

[dbostedo]

My caution wasn’t about frustrating anyone it was about avoiding getting hit by someone that is not good enough to avoid someone making unpredictable movements around the run. Yes you have the right of way but accidents still happen, people are trying to come from behind and might very well be trying to avoid you when suddenly you decide to meander right into their path. Just something to think about.

I look over my shoulder every time I do anything other then staying in a fixed corridor.

Understood. Suffice it to say that I've been in one collision in the last several years (total of about 50 days or so of skiing).

Now back to the bump question... @BornToSki683 , do you always ski the zipper line in bumps? (Or a high majority of the time?)

 

[PisteOff]

I'm meandering because I'm looking around thinking "that little lip over there looks nice" or "the snow looks better over there" or "I need to miss that ice patch I hit last time". Skiing straight down the fall line every time is boring. (Besides which, like strikeouts, it's fascist!

And yes, I'm aware that I might be frustrating someone behind me... I try to be congnizant of when it's crowded and keep an eye out, even though I have the right of way.

Circling back around... So given that I'm choosing to meander, do good bump skiers do the same?

I am by no stretch of the imagination a "bump skier". I aspire to be that good in the bumps. Truth be told we rarely encounter them in Michigan lol. When I do encounter them I am either looking for the easier line or the funner line. Depends on pitch and conditions. Bumped up soft, fun. Ice mounds, safe and easy. The steeper it is the smarter about it I want to be. I just need more time in them, which I will get.

 

[Beartown]

I like to ski bumps, but am not good at it, and am certainly not a zipper-liner (though I do aspire to be!). I can maintain speed control and stay in a narrow corridor on pretty steep slopes, but just don't have the "absorption" stuff down. Any ideas for a good clinic to take my bumping to the next level?

Here's some typical bump skiing for me:

 

[Blue Streak]

The best bump skier is the one who can ski any line using any technique.

That is what I aspire to. Unfortunately I suck. I am just tiring to suck at a higher level.

 

[BornToSki683]

Now back to the bump question... @BornToSki683 , do you always ski the zipper line in bumps? (Or a high majority of the time?)

Nothing is ever "always". I can ski the zipper and usually do and really enjoy that, but more and more the bump fields don't have great zipper lines so I have to move around a bit more, change lines or deal with close outs in a way that is not exactly zipper. I'm not trying to say its bad to ski out of the zipper by the way, what I'm saying is that there are lot of people preaching to ski out of the zipper....because they can't. If its a choice, then fine. If its a cop out due to lack of bump skills, well that's another thing.

I prefer stuff that is fairly zipperish, but with a bit of variation thrown in so that its not like a robot going down the zipper line, but mostly zipperish... with some opportunities to be creative. My tendency will be to attempt the zipper when I see it...get into a groove and now and then when it closes out or whatever, look for a creative way to break from the zipper rhythm, deal with the situation and get back into a groove again on the next zipper. Nothing wrong with being playful. If you can handle it all, then its all good. If you are avoiding the zipper because you can't, thats another thing.