Bindings 101: What Are Your Questions?

[Doug Briggs]

Why would a tap be necessary? A metal topsheet or layer is just that, a layer. It's not metal all the way through. Putting a screw into mainly wood, the lack of a precut tap thread would help make a tighter bond, no?

I appended my earlier post to explain, but I'll answer here, too. A screw trying to penetrate an untapped layer tends to grab, rather than penetrate. Binding screws ARE NOT self tapping. The screw mechanically pulls the untapped topsheet and can cause it to delaminate from the rest of the ski. It is really hard to get a binding screw to screw into a metal topsheet without tapping the hole. Especially if you use a bit intended for non-metal topsheets (3.5 mm).

When you screw a binding screw into a non-metal topsheet, the hole is enlarged slightly by mechanically stretching the hole, compressing the surrounding material. You can't stretch the metal topsheet easily with the screw, hence the larger bit size AND the tapping.

Waterproof glue creates the tighter bond and seal against water. You'd be surprised at the condition of skis that I have to remount. I'll take a few pictures of 'volcanoes', delamination and rotten core material to illustrate the points above.

 

[Dwight]

I am not asking for me (we have an account), but there are a lot of members here who have the knowledge to do a good job (mounting, tuning and even some bootwork) and just need access to some of the best tools available. Access to product has changed a lot since the last century..even the last decade.

https://www.bindingfreedom.com/ is the consumer site for SVST, though binding mounting tools mainly.

Files/stones and other things, it's @SlideWright .

P.S. Though I have access to SVST accounts too.

 

[Doug Briggs]

A tap isn't necessary for non-metal skis in my experience. When using screws that have been mounted multiple times into a new ski, I like to tap the hole because there is slight dulling of the self-tapping nature.

In a metal ski the issue is that the metal layer can separate and pull up--i.e. "volcano"--if not cut with a sharp tap. Personally -- I only tap far enough down to ensure I'm well past the metal, not necessarily to the bottom of the hole.

Binding screws are not self-tapping. I tap with about three turns of the tap, about halfway down the hole or so.

Even non-metal topsheet skis can benefit from tapping. It reduces volcanoing which means your binding has better opportunity to sit flatly on the ski. I'll use the 3.5 mm bit and tap non-metal topsheets. Todays skis use a wide range of materials and some are much harder than others even if not metal. Tapping insures that you have a good threaded hole. It is a tad excessive, but the number of skis returned with failed mounts is zero, in my case.

I even tap and glue plastic plates. Again, it insures a quality hole with threads and the glue hold the screw and makes it much less likely to vibrate loose over time.

Another note: If you pull a binding and use the same holes to remount, extra care must be taken to insure the screw uses the same threads that were in the hole. This applies to metal or non-metal topsheets. Put the screw in the binding hole, press down on the screw while turning it counter clockwise (unscrewing it) until you feel the screw settle into the old threads. Then gently start screwing in. It will be trivially easy to screw as the screw threads are matched with the ski threads. If you feel any resistance, you are crossing your thread, weakening the hole and increasing the likelihood of a failed remount. You'll either pull the screw under extreme pressure or have created a space for water to penetrate.

 

[JohnnyG]

Question: Does the P18 release any differently than the P14? Does an animation exist to show how they release? I've found one video on Youtube that shows one model, but for some reason, I thought they varied in how they can release.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Locals who show up at our shop at non busy times with fresh baked goodies often get comped demo skis to tryout.

My shop has never charged for mounting skis or demos for their loyal customer base. They even mounted my Renouns though I did buy the binding there. Fastest remount was the morning that I pulled my boards out only to notice a missing chunk of the metal edge that had been ripped off the day before. Drove 5 miles to my shop, they pulled off my old bindings, mounted them on a pair of mis-drilled Mantra's that they had in the back and sent me on my way. Drove 5 miles back to the mountain hooking up with my crew only missing out on one run. Tip my friends at the shop with Heady Topper or Long Trail CDB infused Medicator. This thread reminds me that some baked goods need to be next.

 

[jmeb]

Binding screws are not self-tapping

Huh -- I had read multiple times that they are. Or maybe they are "just good enough" for most soft-wood cores. But I am not an expert.

EDIT: I'll blame Lou for my misunderstanding: https://www.wildsnow.com/3991/tap-guides-skis/

 

[jmeb]

Question: Does the P18 release any differently than the P14? Does an animation exist to show how they release? I've found one video on Youtube that shows one model, but for some reason, I thought they varied in how they can release.

The heels are the same.

The P14 toe is different than the P18 toe -- though very similar. The P18 is a single-pivot on a ball joint. The P14 toe has more moving parts including upward compensation.

There is lots of debate about whether either releases pure-vertical from the toe.

 

[SlideWright]

Luckily resellers like @SlideWright exist.

Barely......Thanks and we can get all things SVST as well as thousands of other options from several suppliers.

But as Dwight pointed out, you can essential order from SVST via Binding Freedom already.

Here is our binding section of our tuning tips.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Huh -- I had read multiple times that they are. Or maybe they are "just good enough" for most soft-wood cores. But I am not an expert.

EDIT: I'll blame Lou for my misunderstanding: https://www.wildsnow.com/3991/tap-guides-skis/

(I am not belaboring the point to be right, but to learn and hopefully provide info for future readers.)

I'm not an expert, just fairly experienced at mounting and remounting skis. I could be wrong. I do get advice and direction from my shop's owner who has been in the business for decades.

My understanding is a self-tapping screw has notches cut into the threads at the tip of the screw. Binding screws don't. I concur that not every ski needs to be tapped, but skis with metal topsheets and skis with internal mounting plates, do need to be tapped.

The tool is a tap for skis. The screw, upper right, is a ski binding screw. The screw, lower right, is what I would consider a self-tapping machine screw. I've never seen a binding screw with a slot like that.

Let's just say can't go wrong tapping holes for binding screws. It may be an unnecessary step for some skis, but the way you usually find out is when your binding/ski interface fails.

 

[Mike Thomas]

The heels are the same.

The P14 toe is different than the P18 toe -- though very similar. The P18 is a single-pivot on a ball joint. The P14 toe has more moving parts including upward compensation.

There is lots of debate about whether either releases pure-vertical from the toe.

There is debate, but there is also reality. The P14 has pure vertical release, the P18 absolutely does NOT.

Can you make a boot release vertically in a P18 on a bench? Sure. You can turn the DIN all the way down and get the boot to slide slightly back by pulling on the boot cuff as the toe sqeezes out of the toe... but that 'heel moving backward' is absolutely not how momentum is going, on snow, during a backward fall.

 

[Uncle-A]

(I am not belaboring the point to be right, but to learn and hopefully provide info for future readers.)

I'm not an expert, just fairly experienced at mounting and remounting skis. I could be wrong. I do get advice and direction from my shop's owner who has been in the business for decades.

My understanding is a self-tapping screw has notches cut into the threads at the tip of the screw. Binding screws don't. I concur that not every ski needs to be tapped, but skis with metal topsheets and skis with internal mounting plates, do need to be tapped.

View attachment 42242
The tool is a tap for skis. The screw, upper right, is a ski binding screw. The screw, lower right, is what I would consider a self-tapping machine screw. I've never seen a binding screw with a slot like that.

Let's just say can't go wrong tapping holes for binding screws. It may be an unnecessary step for some skis, but the way you usually find out is when your binding/ski interface fails.

The slot in a self tapping screw is for the displaced material to clear the hole and not bind the new cut thread. It is similar to the groves in a tap as they do the same job. Even though you drill different size holes for metal and those without metal you do use the same size tap because the screw is the same size. In fact I would like to replace my old tap but the screws are metric and it is not easy to find a metric tap. Yes I know that I could Google the matric tap but those are more like a machine thread and binding screws are not like a machine thread.

 

[James]

@SlideWright sells metric binding taps.

 

[Uncle-A]

@SlideWright sells metric binding taps.

Thanks, I seem to remember a tap handle that was not the typical T- handle for a tap. I think it was available through Salomon because it was a bright orange like the orange color that Salomon uses. It looked like a mini brace and bit with the tab in the chuck instead of a drill bit, it made tapping the holes quick and easy.

 

[Eric W]

I was on the fence between Marker Griffons and Tyrolia attack 13s. Based on recommendations from this forum I decided on the Tyrolia, however, I’m having difficulty finding a shop that has the jig to mount them in the NY/NJ area. Any recommendations?

 

[James]

What area of NY?
If Westchester, Hickory and Tweed in Armonk, maybe Pedigree in White Plains.
Griffon is horrible.

 

[Eric W]

What area of NY?
If Westchester, Hickory and Tweed in Armonk, maybe Pedigree in White Plains.
Griffon is horrible.

Staten Island, Im closer to NJ

 

[James]

Well there's Panda Sport on 5th ave in Bay Ridge Brooklyn. I was in there once years ago and was impressed that it looked like a decent shop.
Otherwise, have it done where you ski. Attack is a very common binding.

 

[jmeb]

Attacks also share the same mount pattern as most other Tyrolia bindings like the Mojo etc.

 

[Eric W]

Well there's Panda Sport on 5th ave in Bay Ridge Brooklyn. I was in there once years ago and was impressed that it looked like a decent shop.
Otherwise, have it done where you ski. Attack is a very common binding.

Thanks I'll check it out.

 

[Doug Briggs]

(I am not belaboring the point to be right, but to learn and hopefully provide info for future readers.)

I'm not an expert, just fairly experienced at mounting and remounting skis. I could be wrong. I do get advice and direction from my shop's owner who has been in the business for decades.

My understanding is a self-tapping screw has notches cut into the threads at the tip of the screw. Binding screws don't. I concur that not every ski needs to be tapped, but skis with metal topsheets and skis with internal mounting plates, do need to be tapped.

View attachment 42242
The tool is a tap for skis. The screw, upper right, is a ski binding screw. The screw, lower right, is what I would consider a self-tapping machine screw. I've never seen a binding screw with a slot like that.

Let's just say can't go wrong tapping holes for binding screws. It may be an unnecessary step for some skis, but the way you usually find out is when your binding/ski interface fails.

I finally got a picture of the tap we use at the shop. It is quick, accurate and easy to use. It has no identifying marks on it. I presume it came from SVST.