Bindings 101: What Are Your Questions?

[Doug Briggs]

@Chris Johnson , my preference, hands down, would be the Attack2 AT. You can use any boot with it given its range of adjustment at the toe. The adjustment at the Tyrolia toe also mantains a constant ramp angle regardless of the boot type you are using; the Tyrolia moves the AFD up and down whereas the Salomon moves the toe piece up and down.

Having an alpine binding that can take any type of boot is a huge benefit. I still use Alpine and X-Over boots (Atomic Hawx XTD) and being able to choose the boot and not be restricted to the ski I choose (well sort of, I have lots of skis with strictly Alpine bindings) is a real boon.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

What other discriminating factors are or should be used when choosing between bindings with various DIN ranges but all that cover the desired DIN setting? IE skier is at 12 DIN...how to chose between something like 4-14, 6-16, 8-18?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Being in the middle of the release setting range to get better safety, in my experience, is not a concern. As long as you are at the proper setting for your skiing, then any release setting range a binding has is fine. Since as time goes on most people are likely to want a lower setting (age, injury, skill level increase reduces need for higher retention values) having room at the low end seems prudent for the longevity of the binding. That may be a moot point as indemnification of the binding may expire before you need a lower setting.

 

[TrueNorth]

On a whim I picked up some deeply discounted old stock Atomic GS skis on ebay, and now I need to find a binding for them. They have the predrilled D2 plate, and I was told that Atomic X16 VAR or X19 VAR bindings would fit on it. I'm not a racer, and I normally run at 8 DIN, so I don't really need or want a high DIN race binding. Are there other bindings that would fit on that plate? Do the other Atomic X series bindings have a compatible hole pattern? Would the X 12 be a good choice?

It has been a few years since I played with that ski... @ScotsSkier skier or @otto woudl be best to answer that question. I I do think you can run the X16, which is a significantly better built binding than the (Neox) X12, at an 8.

It will have to be an Atomic binding of some sort. Without going to the shop to check the shop guide, I can't say which will and won't work. In general it is not appropriate to drill new holes in an Atomic plate to force a pair of bindings (Atomic or otherwise) to work with the plate.

I'm back to looking for bindings for these skis. The plate is pre-drilled with a 3 hole pattern for the toe, like in the pic below, but all the current X race bindings seem to have a 4 hole rectangular screw pattern at the toe. The heel patterns match. Anybody know what Atomic binding would fit this plate with the 3 hole toe?

 

[Jim McDonald]

Is there any difference between a Marker X-Cell 12 and a Tyrolia Attack 13 (or Attack 13 demo) that would make a significant difference to how a given ski performs?

 

[Philpug]

Is there any difference between a Marker X-Cell 12 and a Tyrolia Attack 13 (or Attack 13 demo) that would make a significant difference to how a given ski performs?

Other than brake options, nothing significant.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Thanks Phil. I didn't think so, but wanted to check with the experts

 

[KingGrump]

I'm back to looking for bindings for these skis. The plate is pre-drilled with a 3 hole pattern for the toe, like in the pic below, but all the current X race bindings seem to have a 4 hole rectangular screw pattern at the toe. The heel patterns match. Anybody know what Atomic binding would fit this plate with the 3 hole toe?
View attachment 60020

The 4 hole pattern is for the older plates. The new plates are 3 hole pattern. There is a countersink screw hole in the binding toe track. Use that instead of the front pair of screw holes. You can either remove the rectangular washers or leave them. Don't make a difference.

Atomic X16 binding toe track.

 

[everest8850]

TYROLIA AMBITION questions: hi folks, got a few questions about these touring bindings before mounting.
1) anyone used them uphill and downhill as well as the Marker Tour F10/12s - comparisons on performance up/downhill welcome. I have both - trying to figure out which binding works best with which ski;
2) see photo attached. When I've aligned them as per the template, there's actually small a gap between the end of the post and the heel block lock down section. Normal? It feels secure when I wiggle it - I;m just assuming you need a gap to account for the slight flex in the ski when in action
3) see template (bottom left hand corner photo) - there's a line that says "inline" and another that says "rental". so which line should i be using as the recommended centre-line mount line? I'll need to align one of these two lines to the centreline stamped on my ski top sheet..
4) I have a 304mm BSL Dynafit Neo boot and wonder if the 300 tube length setting is the right one to use on the Tyrolia ( as per photo) ? It seems if i have to change to a slightly larger boot, I'll have to re mount the entire binding/ ? many thanks!

 

[TrueNorth]

The 4 hole pattern is for the older plates. The new plates are 3 hole pattern. There is a countersink screw hole in the binding toe track. Use that instead of the front pair of screw holes. You can either remove the rectangular washers or leave them. Don't make a difference.

Atomic X16 binding toe track.
View attachment 60100

Hmm, the bindings I was looking at (recent Atomic X12) don’t have any such 3rd hole that matches the hole in the plate. The big central holes are too big for a screw and dont line up.

What year are your X16s from? Maybe I just need to get X16 instead of X12.

 

[KingGrump]

What year are your X16s from?

The one in the photo is 2018. Currently, I have about 7 pairs of skis mounted with either X16 or X19 bindings. The bindings ranges from 2012 onward. They all use the 3 hole set up. I remembered a pair of D2 SL from around 2012 that had the four hole plate. That ski is long gone.
Don't have any X12 in my fleet. I do have a Salomon Lab 12 on another ski which is basically a re-branded Atomic. I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

 

[KingGrump]

View attachment 60144
Hmm, the bindings I was looking at (recent Atomic X12) don’t have any such 3rd hole that matches the hole in the plate. The big central holes are too big for a screw and dont line up.

What year are your X16s from? Maybe I just need to get X16 instead of X12.

Took a good look at your photo. Looks like you have the X12/Neox binding.

You can find see the X12/Neox in this manual page 18.

The Neox series uses a different hole pattern than the X Race. If memory serves me right, the hole spacing laterally are also narrower.
Just checked the Soli 12. It's 3 hole also.
You can get a X12 VAR or X16 VAR. Both of them will fit. the 3 hole plate. Be aware the X16 starts at DIN setting of 8.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

What torque setting should i use to install race bindings onto a race plate? The These are Marker Xcell bindings.

The manual states 4Nm on the toe fixation piece (that goes under the toe piece) but doesn't provide any torque recommendations on the actual toe piece or heel piece.

Help appreciated!

( @Philpug @Doug Briggs )

 

[Jersey Skier]

Where is brake binding size generally measured? I have a pair of Atomic STH2 (blue and orange) bindings with the brake measuring about 120 up near the bend and closer to 130 at the tips. Just looking to sell these and list them properly. Thanks.

 

[Doug Briggs]

What torque setting should i use to install race bindings onto a race plate? The These are Marker Xcell bindings.

The manual states 4Nm on the toe fixation piece (that goes under the toe piece) but doesn't provide any torque recommendations on the actual toe piece or heel piece.

Help appreciated!

( @Philpug @Doug Briggs )

4 - 5 Nm is common. I don't use a torque screwdriver but go by feel. I typically have to turn the screws a fraction of a turn after using the screwshooter to get them to set properly.

You want to look at the binding/ski interface to make sure you have secured the binding to the ski without any space between. It is easy, especially with new bindings, for the screw to seem to be in all the way when it really isn't. The head of the screw will be pressing on the binding but there can be a gap under the binding. Said another way, the threads that hold the screw in the new binding can sometimes cause the screw to bottom out on the binding without actually causing the gap between the binding and ski to disappear.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Where is brake binding size generally measured? I have a pair of Atomic STH2 (blue and orange) bindings with the brake measuring about 120 up near the bend and closer to 130 at the tips. Just looking to sell these and list them properly. Thanks.

There is no easy answer to that question. It could be 120 or it could be 130 or something in between. I looked at a reseller that lists Salomon STH2 brake widths as: 80, 90, 100, 115 and 130. With that info, it is probably a 130.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

4 - 5 Nm is common. I don't use a torque screwdriver but go by feel. I typically have to turn the screws a fraction of a turn after using the screwshooter to get them to set properly.

You want to look at the binding/ski interface to make sure you have secured the binding to the ski without any space between. It is easy, especially with new bindings, for the screw to seem to be in all the way when it really isn't. The head of the screw will be pressing on the binding but there can be a gap under the binding. Said another way, the threads that hold the screw in the new binding can sometimes cause the screw to bottom out on the binding without actually causing the gap between the binding and ski to disappear.

I have noticed that, specifically with the toe fixation piece that goes under the toe piece. No matter what I do I can't seem to get it perfect.

The way the Xcell bindings mount the front of the toe piece seems to float a bit as there isn't a screw at the front of the toe fixation piece, nor is there a screw at the front of the toe piece itself. It's kind of strange. If I pull up on the front of the toe piece there is definitely a tiny sliver of play/space between the toe piece/fixation piece and the plate. Nothing I do seems to alleviate that...so I'm guessing it's supposed to be there. I will try and take pics tomorrow.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Marker's toe piece screw holes are all aft of the front of the boot, right? The place you need to be concerned about daylight between the binding and ski/plate is where the screws are. Each screw location should be firm against the ski/plate. Daylight where there aren't screws is not a problem if the mounting area is flush to the ski.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

Marker's toe piece screw holes are all aft of the front of the boot, right? The place you need to be concerned about daylight between the binding and ski/plate is where the screws are. Each screw location should be firm against the ski/plate. Daylight where there aren't screws is not a problem if the mounting area is flush to the ski.

Correct - both the toe fixation piece and the actual toe piece screws are pretty well aft of the main body of the toe piece. I don't see any daylight near the screws, but fore of the screws there is some, and I can sort of pull up on the toe piece itself and make the sliver tinsy bit bigger. My guess is that's just how they are. Not sure what else I could do. I'll try to get pics tomorrow with a boot clipped in.

 

[Doug Briggs]

@RikkiBobbi , I haven't noticed the variable gap but if you have no daylight where the screws are, you are good.