This was kind of my point.
Trends are not seen in one year of a pass product. They are seen over time. All I'm saying to the masses is...
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Alterra CEO doesn't want Ikon to ruin resorts.
- Thread starter Ron
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Trends are not seen in one year of a pass product. They are seen over time. All I'm saying to the masses is...
I'm back on skis after a 30-year break. Skied the Midwest as a kid (specifically Buck Hill). Living in IL, I wouldn't be able to afford to ski out west. This year I am at Deer Valley for 5 days, Taos for 6, and Winter Park for 7. I am able to find cheap lodging and points for airfare, making it affordable. I get that it may be more crowded, but it's worth it to me. I hate crowds, so I plan my trips during times I expect them to be smaller. My rookie two cents.
Shhhh. Locals don't want to hear that.Ikon is evil, dontcha know?
You’re hitting it on the head here. One more “I should be the last guy in” attitude.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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Welcome aboard! I hope your trips are fantastic.
Patience, indeed. As the article pointed out, resorts are doing something about it. After only the first season, things are being tweaked. The areas are listening to the locals (hence the free Ikon passes for Aspen and JH passholders, among other things). And ABasin also did something about it. Hell, for all we know, last year's new visitors could also be thinking, "That place [JH, Solitude, wherever] was a complete shitshow! I'm not going back!" This could actually decrease crowds in the end .... 
Ok maybe not, but ya never know.
Ok maybe not, but ya never know.
This was kind of my point.
Trends are not seen in one year of a pass product. They are seen over time. All I'm saying to the masses is...
Hey, that's my line.
They just wanted to get rid of the locals so the hill don't get overcrowded.
They just wanted to get rid of the locals so the hill don't get overcrowded.
Lol, but of course it is true that many passholders at those places are saying, Um, I don't want to go anywhere else, I want my regular local world-class skiing. So I get that it is only a band-aid, but it's something.
Is this still about protecting one’s perception of exclusivity? It’s my world-class skiing, don’t mess it up for me.
The thing is, since we’re talking about Utah and Jackson, those are places highly dependent on tourism, and ski $$$ are a big chunk of their economies. They must have calculated that local skiers/boarders would not sustain the business, without the influx of Ikon and Epic pass holders.
And yet, the frenzy of the powder days is probably more due to locals rather than powder-chasing tourists.
So, without the tourists (whose numbers may have indeed increased due to Ikon and Epic), the traffic would still be crappy and the powder all tracked out within an hour, but without the additional revenue from tourists buying food, beverages, accommodations, lessons and the occasional pair of goggles, gloves as well as equipment rentals.
I think the net effect of Ikon and Epic is they bring consistency to skier visits. People buy these multi-resort passes, whether they have a local resort or not, they plan their travel ahead of time, they show up and spend money, even if the conditions aren’t epic enough to bring out locals.
If Alterra can improve the quality of their product experience, for locals as well as tourists, all these power to them. Hopefully any positive effects will make Vail Resorts takes notice and emulate.
The thing is, since we’re talking about Utah and Jackson, those are places highly dependent on tourism, and ski $$$ are a big chunk of their economies. They must have calculated that local skiers/boarders would not sustain the business, without the influx of Ikon and Epic pass holders.
And yet, the frenzy of the powder days is probably more due to locals rather than powder-chasing tourists.
So, without the tourists (whose numbers may have indeed increased due to Ikon and Epic), the traffic would still be crappy and the powder all tracked out within an hour, but without the additional revenue from tourists buying food, beverages, accommodations, lessons and the occasional pair of goggles, gloves as well as equipment rentals.
I think the net effect of Ikon and Epic is they bring consistency to skier visits. People buy these multi-resort passes, whether they have a local resort or not, they plan their travel ahead of time, they show up and spend money, even if the conditions aren’t epic enough to bring out locals.
If Alterra can improve the quality of their product experience, for locals as well as tourists, all these power to them. Hopefully any positive effects will make Vail Resorts takes notice and emulate.
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It's a pretty big IF. The one thing I tend to recognise about "improved experience" for consumer facing businesses is it tends to come with more self-serve (i.e. cost cutting) or increased price tag or attempts to flog me lots of ancilliaries I'm not interested in.
I wouldn't be betting against the Ikon Black Pass or some other form of premium linecutting pay for perks however. It's a pretty simple lever - I hope Alterra are better than that.
Yeah, the fact that you have articles like this continuing to come out does suggest Alterra is aware that there is a problem. The article does suggests changes and tweaks are coming next season.Patience, indeed. As the article pointed out, resorts are doing something about it. After only the first season, things are being tweaked. The areas are listening to the locals (hence the free Ikon passes for Aspen and JH passholders, among other things). And ABasin also did something about it. Hell, for all we know, last year's new visitors could also be thinking, "That place [JH, Solitude, wherever] was a complete shitshow! I'm not going back!" This could actually decrease crowds in the end ....
So, here’s a twist:
I have my Ikon Pass, which I can use at Crystal Mt (WA), but mostly acquired for the Gathering, plus a few days at Big Sky and UT pre- and post-Gathering.
Well my SO just confirmed she would be joining me on the trip. So I looked at the cost of tickets at Big Sky, Jackson, and the UT Ikon resorts, and even with the Friends and Family tickets with 25% off, it made more sense to just buy her an Ikon Pass of her own. Which I did yesterday. In any event she can use it at Crystal as well as Snoqualmie, so it just made sense, even without early pricing.
My reluctance (and my SO’s) to pay for full-price walk-up tickets, even with a 25% discount, is apparent not just to me but probably Alterra as well.
I have my Ikon Pass, which I can use at Crystal Mt (WA), but mostly acquired for the Gathering, plus a few days at Big Sky and UT pre- and post-Gathering.
Well my SO just confirmed she would be joining me on the trip. So I looked at the cost of tickets at Big Sky, Jackson, and the UT Ikon resorts, and even with the Friends and Family tickets with 25% off, it made more sense to just buy her an Ikon Pass of her own. Which I did yesterday. In any event she can use it at Crystal as well as Snoqualmie, so it just made sense, even without early pricing.
My reluctance (and my SO’s) to pay for full-price walk-up tickets, even with a 25% discount, is apparent not just to me but probably Alterra as well.
That's not the first time I've poached someone's line.Hey, that's my line.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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HEY! WATCH OUT BEHIND YOU!That's not the first time I've poached someone's line.
Huh. Isn’t Highlands where people pay lots of money to get sprayed with champagne? Different class of dirtbag I guess.
I think this winter will be the tell. It seems to me that everywhere out west had a big snow season last year. Everywhere I went seemed more crowded than usual. I noticed Mammoth was busier in spring than usual. Might it be the Ikon draw because everyone wanted to extend their season and Mammoth was still skiing so well? Yes, very likely. We also went to Squalpine in spring which we normally would not have done. I think after the first couple of years, it will all settle down. For example, we normally go to Utah skiing, but we went to Colorado instead last year. Without the Ikon, we would have been around SLC like usual.
Yeah, I could probably plan on doing some spring skiing at Tahoe or Mammoth, or Banff, or whatever resorts in CO are open, without having to plan too far in advance, as opposed to winding down when Stevens and Crystal stop operating in late April.
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Highlands turned the iconoclast zone long ago. At one point the owner of Aspen banned the hot dog skiing contest when people smoked pot. Highlands took it up. Lots of stuff like that. Don't know what year Aspen raised the pass $ to try and get dirtbags out. Thinking late 60's.
A dispute over selling all-Aspen passes, and Highlands being squeezed out, Aspen Ski Co vs Aspen Highlands Skiing Corp went to the US Supreme Court in 1985. (I've no idea of the legal issues. I Believe the award was $10mil to Highlands)
Back in the day you probably had Cher and a local dirtbag at the same table at Highlands. Similar thing could happen today perhaps with someone else at Cloud Nine if you get a res and eat there. Someone else will buy the champagne.
Imagine Ski Patrol doing this regularly outside Cloud Nine:
A member of the Aspen Highlands Ski Patrol jumps over the crowd in a popular and exciting daily exhibition at the Cloud Nine Picnic Cabin, 1975.
Photo: Robert Brandes / Aspen Historical Society
And your other half would have a fun time doing some of the NSR things that are offered that late into the season. So many things to do that time of year besides skiing.
There is a reason @Weems Westfeldt and that whole motley crew landed at Highlands back then.
Winter 2017-18 start was terrible
Winter 2018-19 was an amazing snow year
I think last year crowding was in part due to many being *hungry* to ski and get after it while it was good. Make hay while the sun is shining and all that.
In particular, I think Utah resorts had the worst "Ikon effect" since Ikon seems great in that market for the 10-20 day SLC skier.
Winter 2018-19 was an amazing snow year
I think last year crowding was in part due to many being *hungry* to ski and get after it while it was good. Make hay while the sun is shining and all that.
In particular, I think Utah resorts had the worst "Ikon effect" since Ikon seems great in that market for the 10-20 day SLC skier.