4-Wheel Drive or Snow Tires?

[jzmtl]

Also if I were to choose again I would go with studded tires, there are many situations where even the best studless is quite useless.

 

[François Pugh]

I have a Mazda 3 Sport (6 inches of ground clearance) with non-studded Hakkapeliitta R2. I got them when I was not sure where my next job would be. Studded tires are legal in Northern Ontario (Canada), but not in Southern Ontario. They will plow through a foot of snow, but not 18".

I found their limit trying to park in the free parking lot instead of paying for the hospital parking during a snow storm; just as I was making the tight turn into my spot the traction control killed me dead in the water. Lucky for me there was someone there to give me a push to get going; my freshly broken arm (humerus at the shoulder) was in no shape to shovel. Once moving again (with the traction control turned off and tires spinning), I decided to keep going through the lot and pay for the expensive hospital parking up on the wind swept hill.

 

[Dave Marshak]

...I will most likely get an SUV with 4WD at these skiing locations even if they won’t give me a 100% promise in writing? (Unless I get unlucky and I get the car being returned by the one person from FL...)

My last Denver rental was a RWD 4Runner, with an open differential. I've never even seen one of those before. It's not that uncommon to get 2WD SUVs anymore.

In other Denver rental news, when you to rent a car in town, you have to pay the airport tax or sign a statement that you haven't come from the airport. I'm gonna need to use 2 passports to travel to Colorado.

dm

 

[hollyberry]

Correct

Cool! Now I can stop stressing about this and go back to drooling over the Jackson Hole Trail map : )

 

[TheHitman]

Yes, every time I've rented a full-size SUV in Denver or SLC, it's 4 wheel drive.

Also, make TWO rental reservations. Make one that doesn't require payment or obligation. That way, if one isn't a 4 wheel drive, go to the other company.

 

[Doug Briggs]

The 'have two sets of mounted tires so you can change them yourself' is great if you can anticipate the storm. I've thrice been in Denver (at concerts) when I needed to drive to Breck (home) after the show and there was snow on the passes. I don't know if it was forecast but is was the middle of summer and I hadn't changed to my snow tires. Duh. So....

My summer tires, since the OEM tires were replaced, have been tires with siping and an aggressive tread pattern. Not always full on snowflake rated winter tires, but ones that I knew would work in snow. Now my summer tires ARE winter tires. It just doesn't make sense to scrimp on safety. I'd rather wear out my winter tires a little sooner than necessary and be safer in the summer storms than run the increased risk of accident and injury due to inadequate traction.

 

[TheHitman]

Looking up prices for new AWD Chevy Traverse, it's not cheaper in Florida. The problem is, the only AWD are the most decked out vehicles and they only have a couple of them.

I did a price compare in Fort Collins and they sell for the same. I'd have to order one here in Florida. In Fort Collins, they'd have one on the lot.

Is there an extra fee to bring a new vehicle in Colorado? Like if I bought a new AWD in Florida, and moved it in, would I pay more for the first registration?

 

[ScotsSkier]

Looking up prices for new AWD Chevy Traverse, it's not cheaper in Florida. The problem is, the only AWD are the most decked out vehicles and they only have a couple of them.

I did a price compare in Fort Collins and they sell for the same. I'd have to order one here in Florida. In Fort Collins, they'd have one on the lot.

Is there an extra fee to bring a new vehicle in Colorado? Like if I bought a new AWD in Florida, and moved it in, would I pay more for the first registration?

well, yeah, the list price of a new vehicle pre-tax is going to be the same fro every state basically (except perhaps HI and AK). But the value of your FWD is going to be more in FL.....and of course you may have a better chance of negotiating a decent discount on a vehicle that is on the lot (not always the case though, a lot of volume dealers will still negotiate on a factory order since it is effectively an easy sale). You need to check the FL DMV and CO DMV sites to see who is required for registration and also if there are any sales tax impacts

 

[Doug Briggs]

@TheHitman , I think it will be the possibility of paying the sales tax, not a difference in registration fees. @ScotsSkier is right that the DMV will have the details. I think checking CO first to see how long you have had to own a new vehicle to avoid paying sales tax on 'import' will affect you.

For instance, if a NH resident buys a car in ME, they can get the ME sales tax deferred as they are going to register in NH which has not sales tax.

 

[TheHitman]

Good idea. I'll call Colorado DMV.

What about using cables or chains as needed on the front of my FWD in addition to winter tires? Is that not something people do in Colorado? I've never seen them being used there.

 

[Doug Briggs]

People use chains/cables in CO. They are legal and required at times. They are often required for trucks and commercial vehicles, rarely for cars. The conditions that they are required for cars are pretty extreme and infrequent. The times they could be used to good effect on cars if much more often than they get utilized, unfortunately.

 

[Don in Morrison]

Good idea. I'll call Colorado DMV.

What about using cables or chains as needed on the front of my FWD in addition to winter tires? Is that not something people do in Colorado? I've never seen them being used there.

My own thoughts on chains are this: If the car is still moving forward, without slipping sideways, you don't need the chains. If you stop to put the chains on because you're concerned about getting stuck, your car becomes a beached whale; it ain't goin' anywhere until the chains are in place.

 

[TheHitman]

So cables or chains would be suitable in addition to winter tires if I chose to keep my FWD?

I'm just trying to weigh all my options here.

 

[coskigirl]

So cables or chains would be suitable in addition to winter tires if I chose to keep my FWD?

I'm just trying to weigh all my options here.

Frankly, I would not drive I-70 from the Front Range with chains/cables on a passenger car. Generally, if it gets bad enough to need them on a vehicle with good tires they will close the road. There are chain up stations but they are intended for semi-trucks. There is a device called the Auto Sock that I've thought about buying just in case I got stuck in a bad situation but I haven't needed it yet.

 

[tball]

Cables or chains have very little value for a front range skier. The speeds on the roads are too high. It's too dangerous to put them on, and the conditions change so often you'd likely have to mount and dismount them several times.

You'll do great with 2WD and *good* snow tires, studded or not. You'll be better off with *good* snow tires than the majority of vehicles, ie everyone with AWD and all-season tires.

It would be nice to trade out for an AWD vehicle, but totally unnecessary.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Frankly, I would not drive I-70 from the Front Range with chains/cables on a passenger car. Generally, if it gets bad enough to need them on a vehicle with good tires they will close the road. There are chain up stations but they are intended for semi-trucks. There is a device called the Auto Sock that I've thought about buying just in case I got stuck in a bad situation but I haven't needed it yet.

The tow company I used to do work for loved the auto sock. It provided them with more towing business.

Cables or chains have very little value for a front range skier. The speeds on the roads are too high. It's too dangerous to put them on, and the conditions change so often you'd likely have to mount and dismount them several times.

You'll do great with 2WD and *good* snow tires, studded or not. You'll be better off with *good* snow tires than the majority of vehicles, ie everyone with AWD and all-season tires.

It would be nice to trade out for an AWD vehicle, but totally unnecessary.

I can't argue your points so I won't. ;-) Chains/cables are good for the short haul 'must get there' situation, like getting up a tough driveway home or to work (ugh).

 

[tball]

Don't know how many times I've seen FWD cars with snows unable to negotiate the uphill streets of Breckenridge. Going uphill, the weight of the vehicle shifts to the rear.

Yes, some Breck neighborhood streets are steep and often not sanded and plowed as well as it seems they should be.

I'm curious how you know those FWD cars have snow tires? Further, are they *good* snow tires?

I'll suggest that 1) a front wheel drive vehicle with *good* snow tires will negotiate those streets better than a AWD with all season tires, and 2) a front range skier doesn't need to drive on those neighborhood streets to ski Breck.

Likewise, skiing any Colorado ski area from the front range doesn't require the traction mountain residents need to climb their neighborhood streets and driveways. Even then, plenty of locals don't have AWD/4WD.

 

[Doug Briggs]

...

Likewise, skiing any Colorado ski area from the front range doesn't require the traction mountain residents need to climb their neighborhood streets and driveways. Even then, plenty of locals don't have AWD/4WD.

Define 'plenty'.

If we don't own a Subaru then we own a Tacoma. It's just that simple around here. We wave at everyone because we can't tell who are our neighbors and who aren't.

 

[tball]

Define 'plenty'.

OK, some locals?

What's scary is how many local workers who can't afford to live in the county drive over Fremont and Hoosier passes each day. Many (most?) somehow manage, just barely, with a 2WD and far from the best tires.

I have a Mazda 3 Sport (6 inches of ground clearance) with non-studded Hakkapeliitta R2. I got them when I was not sure where my next job would be. Studded tires are legal in Northern Ontario (Canada), but not in Southern Ontario. They will plow through a foot of snow, but not 18".

Not being able to plow through 18" of snow with your FWD Mazda 3 is much more an issue of clearance than traction. You can only push so much snow with any given amount of traction.

@TheHitman has better clearance with his Highlander, and will likely never see even 12" of snow outside his Fort Collins neighborhood in a big storm every year or so.

 

[Monique]

In my experience, having AWD + snow tires means never having to turn around because I-70 had become <X> restricted. No planning required.

@Doug Briggs - I agree about the risk factor with snow tires in the mountains, but I much prefer the ride of an all season in the summer. And temps are a lot higher down here than up there, so it probably affects my winter tires more.

2) a front range skier doesn't need to drive on those neighborhood streets to ski Breck.

Absolutely true. A visitor might, if they rent a place up Moonstone or Boreas. Main Street is perfectly level. I used to drive down Moonstone pretty regularly when we had a season rental up North Fuller Placer. That got interesting, but we had AWD + snows (no studs), and never had a problem.

If we don't own a Subaru then we own a Tacoma. It's just that simple around here. We wave at everyone because we can't tell who are our neighbors and who aren't.

There was a Powderwhores "ad" a few years ago for fake insurance. "We cover ALL makes and models - Outback AND Tacoma!" I laughed. I still laugh.