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4-Wheel Drive or Snow Tires?

François Pugh

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If you plan on keeping your front wheel drive Highlander for a few years, and why wouldn't you, get an set of Hakkapaliitta SUV 9 mounted on an extra set of rims and swap to them for the winters.

BTW, not all studded tires are created equally, there are still some tires out there (e.g. the ones used to compare Blizzak tires to on skating rinks) that are decades old technology.
 

Philpug

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When they call for "1 to 2" out here, it is 1-2 inches in Reno..1-2 feet in Truckee and 1-2 yards in Tahoe-Donner. Depending where you are, you usually need to buy for two of those regions .
 
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TheHitman

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If you plan on keeping your front wheel drive Highlander for a few years, and why wouldn't you, get an set of Hakkapaliitta SUV 9 mounted on an extra set of rims and swap to them for the winters.

I don't know, that's why i ask.

I'm gathering the Hakka is better than something like the Copper ATW?

My best bet is the studded tire?
 
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TheHitman

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But also, what summer tire could i get that may be appropriate in snow in case my winter tires aren't mounted yet?
 

Bill Talbot

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Yes, I'm a control freak and have always bought the best tires for the conditions, but I've also been financially challenged, and have on occasion waited to replace my tires until the tire shop wouldn't honour the life-time flat warranty or until the cords were showing through the sidewall :D :nono:. But by that point, I knew that I needed to drive very slowly in slush, and very carefully manage momentum in snow; ice traction on the x-ice with almost no tread was still good. On summer tires, low tread caused them to get too hot, and they felt greasy.

Now I can afford to replace the tires when they reach the wear bars, but I'm still slowing down and keeping the snows on until the legal bars are reached. Some snow tires have winter wear bars and a second set of wear bars at the legal tread depth. If I saw a lot of snow instead of a couple of noteworthy storms per year, I would replace at the winter wear bars.

I usually feel great joy putting the Michelin Pilots back on in the spring. In the fall I need to keep reminding myself to slow down for curves.

I replace before they reach the winter wear bars. You can already feel the performance in wet/slushy snow fall off.
In non-stupid sizing (no 18-19" or too wide either) even the best snows are a relative bargain. Doubt me? See what the local body shop charges...
 

Bill Talbot

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But also, what summer tire could i get that may be appropriate in snow in case my winter tires aren't mounted yet?

This is why you want a dedicated set of winter wheels/tires. You can throw them on @ home BEFORE they are needed.
I got caught once in my REX with my extreme performance summer tires on in a freakish early few inches of wet snow. It was quite a revelation and will not be allowed to happen again!!!
 

tball

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I don't know, that's why i ask.

I'm gathering the Hakka is better than something like the Copper ATW?

My best bet is the studded tire?

Yes, the Hakka, or any good new technology snow tire, will be better on the snow and ice than any all-terrain tire.

The Hakka studded is the best in the snow available if you can live with studs. Studs or not depends on your vehicle usage other than skiing, IMO. How do you use the vehicle and how many miles do you drive on dry roads. How often are you going skiing?

If you can't live with studs, modern top-shelf studless snow tires are really good. Better than studded tires a decade ago. Michelin X-ice are at the top of the snow tire rankings and also very good on dry roads. I think they would be perfect for your application, unless this vehicle sits a lot and is used primarily for skiing, then go studs.

For winter driving in a 2WD into the CO mountains, stay any from any tire that doesn't need to be swapped out in the summer, IMO. It's going to be too much of a compromise vs. a dedicated snow tire.
But also, what summer tire could i get that may be appropriate in snow in case my winter tires aren't mounted yet?
Good question! Avoid high-performance tires unless the vehicle can sit for days. Look at the snow performance on Consumer Reports and Tire Rack. There is a huge difference between the best and the worst all-season tires in the snow. Michelin is typically at or near the best, but others are great too.
 

ScotsSkier

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Ok, tires is one thing that will help ameliorate the lack of 4wd. But it is still a lesser compromise over 4wd with snow tires. You are moving to Colorado, and I assume you are going to be there for a few years. Get rid of the 2wd in Florida where it is still worth something ( unlike in CO) and get a 4wd and a set of snow tires. Do it once and do it right...just saying...
 

jzmtl

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That's another concern if you ever decide to sell it. Even here FWD SUV barely get any buyers and we definitely don't NEED AWD. The only way you'll get rid of it is price it way below market value.
 

tball

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Yes, AWD would be better and FWD will be hard to sell. If he wants to drive it into the ground, though, FWD will be fine with good snow tires.

With good snow tires on FWD, you are better off than the majority of I-70 skiers who have AWD and all season tires.

This is where all-season tires and a bit of bad luck or judgment gets you:


Those are the conditions I'm looking to optimize for: high speeds, slick roads and lots of idiots.
 
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Ken_R

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Yes, AWD would be better and FWD will be hard to sell. If he wants to drive it into the ground, though, FWD will be fine with good snow tires.

With good snow tires on FWD, you are better off than the majority of I-70 skiers who have AWD and all season tires.

This is where all-season tires and a bit of bad luck or judgment gets you:


Those are the conditions I'm looking to optimize for: high speeds, slick roads and lots of idiots.

Classic, super sketchy to change lanes when conditions are like that. Even with the best of winter tires its dicey but doable. The truck probably had all seasons (not even top end AT tires) so that made the move dangerous. Tires make all the difference. AWD/4WD does nothing in that situation.
 

Philpug

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Many here had a ski quiver, why not a tire quiver? Tires are the most important safety feature on a car, period. All for the other safety features, AWD, ABS, TC, ActiveWhatever are meaningless unless you are getting grip and traction from your tires.
 

Talisman

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Many here had a ski quiver, why not a tire quiver? Tires are the most important safety feature on a car, period. All for the other safety features, AWD, ABS, TC, ActiveWhatever are meaningless unless you are getting grip and traction from your tires.

Truth! A few times I have thought glad I have snow/ice tires on my AWD when driving on sketchy roads. I have never wished for summer tires for winter driving. I do see a fair number of FWD cars in the snow banks each snow storm and few flipped SUVs, but not sure what tires they were using.
 

princo

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Looks like I'll be moving to the Ft Collins, CO area in the next couple months.

So I need to figure out the best vehicle to get me up to Eldora and Winter Park every week or two during the winter.
I currently have a front wheel drive Toyota Highlander that does pretty well in snow of North Carolina and West Virginia, which actually has steeper and more twisting turns.
I'm wondering if I need to trade it in for a 4-wheel drive?

I would trade the Highlander for a AWD/4WD one before relocating. For example, 4wd/AWD vehicles in Florida are a bit cheaper than here in CO (~$2k). Some people there even avoid 4wd/AWD as it has "more things that could break". If you buy and sell in the same transaction you pay only taxes in the difference, so if you get a car of similar value, you save the taxes. Also, the registration here in CO is % of the MSRP (the % decreases every year), while in FL the registration is a flat fee (<$50). For example, renewing my 2013 4Runner registration was ~$500. Colorado started using salt 2 winters ago, while the salt there in the winter is used in margaritas. So you could be looking at $3k-$4k in savings (and the hit you will take selling a FWD car in CO) by exchanging your vehicle before relocating to CO. Sell high and buy low. In your situation, you can do all that changing cars at home.
 
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Kneale Brownson

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Yes, AWD would be better and FWD will be hard to sell. If he wants to drive it into the ground, though, FWD will be fine with good snow tires.

.

Don't know how many times I've seen FWD cars with snows unable to negotiate the uphill streets of Breckenridge. Going uphill, the weight of the vehicle shifts to the rear.

I drive Audi quattro vehicles with studded snows because studs are permitted in Colorado. When I lived in Michigan and spent many hours a week on snowy rural roads, I drove Audi quattro vehicles with unstudded Hakkas.
 

Talisman

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I drove Audi quattro vehicles with unstudded Hakkas.
An AWD with good snow/ice tires and winter driving is easier. I needed to get over driving a 4X4 SUV with snow/ice tires in snow, all that clearance isn't your friend in many winter driving situations. The lower center of gravity keeps the rubber on the road versus the door handles.
 

hollyberry

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You are all car owners, so maybe you never rent when you go skiing, but just wondering: how the heck is someone supposed to rent a 4WD car when they go on a ski trip? Every time I have tried, the car rental companies have told me they ‘can’t guarantee 100%’ that the car I rent will have 4WD, even if it’s a Jeep grand Cherokee, Chevy Tahoe, etc and even if I specifically ask for one with 4WD. What gives? And is 4WD really necessary near Jackson Hole or Big Sky? I’d hate to pay so much for a rental SUV and then have them tell me they only have FWD SUV’s when I fly there. I say SUV (not Audi or other perfectly good winter cars) because the rental guy said all the full size sedans and compact cars are FWD only. He said only the SUV’s and pickups are likely to have 4WD, if at all.
 

ScotsSkier

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You are all car owners, so maybe you never rent when you go skiing, but just wondering: how the heck is someone supposed to rent a 4WD car when they go on a ski trip? Every time I have tried, the car rental companies have told me they ‘can’t guarantee 100%’ that the car I rent will have 4WD, even if it’s a Jeep grand Cherokee, Chevy Tahoe, etc and even if I specifically ask for one with 4WD. What gives? And is 4WD really necessary near Jackson Hole or Big Sky? I’d hate to pay so much for a rental SUV and then have them tell me they only have FWD SUV’s when I fly there. I say SUV (not Audi or other perfectly good winter cars) because the rental guy said all the full size sedans and compact cars are FWD only. He said only the SUV’s and pickups are likely to have 4WD, if at all.
j

Because at these locations the SUVs they stock are 4 WD. They send the 2 wd ones to Miami and similar places. Unless of course someone does a one way rental from Miami.. And most of the mainstream rental companies don't use audis or Subaru sedans unless they have a few in the premium/ luxury section. You do not find them in the intermediate/ full size categories.
 

hollyberry

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j

Because at these locations the SUVs they stock are 4 WD. They send the 2 wd ones to Miami and similar places. Unless of course someone does a one way rental from Miami.. And most of the mainstream rental companies don't use audis or Subaru sedans unless they have a few in the premium/ luxury section. You do not find them in the intermediate/ full size categories.
So in other words I will most likely get an SUV with 4WD at these skiing locations even if they won’t give me a 100% promise in writing? (Unless I get unlucky and I get the car being returned by the one person from FL...)

I hope that’s what you mean, because that would be a big relief.
 

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