QFT.
It doesn't matter what technology you have on board. If your tires can't transfer that technology to the road, you can't move.
Edit: Or worse, you can't stop.
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4-Wheel Drive or Snow Tires?
- Thread starter TheHitman
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- tires for winter
QFT.
It doesn't matter what technology you have on board. If your tires can't transfer that technology to the road, you can't move.
Edit: Or worse, you can't stop.
That storm put about 3+ feet in our yard southeast of Morrison. Before the storm peaked, our three youngest kids went to visit their older sister in her apartment in Englewood and got stranded there for the week. Nobody got out of our neighborhood without 4WD and at least a foot and a half of ground clearance. I missed four days of work before the plows came by.
Since we didn't have the kids around to help, my wife and I were out shoveling 6 inches of snow about every 4 hours because that was way easier than trying to move the whole 3+ foot deep pile all at once.
We had a FWD Malibu with all season tires. It was in the garage until the plows came.
I live in Evergreen, and was there for that storm. Measured 84 inches at my house. 10-12 foot high ponderosa pines were completely buried. In my neighborhood, the snow overwhelmed the Jeffco plows, and we had to wait for frontloaders to remove enough snow, leaving sidewalls of snow 10 feet high, to get out of our cul-de-sac. Brand of snow tires pretty much didn't matter. And, my dogs were presented with a substantial challenge in sorting out the potty game. "Upscale"? The appalachia of Colorado?
IIRC, it was a multi-day storm. By the end of it, 36 was an unpassable parking lot of stuck vehicles. The National Gaurd had to pick everyone up in Humvees and take them to shelters the next morning. I remember seeing an interview of some commuters who spent the night on an RTD bus
Throughout the storm, I was driving around pulling vehicles out with my new Toy. By the end, it was clear most were never making it home. I ended up pulling the vehicle to a safe spot then giving them a ride home. That was the first time a car seat was in my truck when I gave a mom and her infant a ride home!
Ahh. I don't remember much other than the annoyance of driving through extreme sketch to then find out the offices were officially closed. But since I was there, I was free to go ahead and work. I gave them an incredulous look, turned around, and headed home. It's possible the office was closed multiple days, and I don't remember. This was at Ball Aerospace in Broomfield.
I remember the storm of '03 quite well. I was recuperating from ACL reconstruction. My only outdoor activity was to operate the snow thrower.
Alas, I missed today's storm as well for having to (pardon the swearing) work.
Alas, I missed today's storm as well for having to (pardon the swearing) work.
Love my Hakkapeliitttas SUV, grips like bear claw, really solid feel on the road, dry or snow/ice. Quite and no perceptible loss of MPG over my summer tires.
Embrace the power of "AND"
QFT
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I don't know how many times I hear "you only need studs when it is solid ice" Exactly. That is the only time I come close to wrecking.
We had a section of polished white ice which looked for all the world like packed snow this year. I came around a bend on a downhill section and there were cars everywhere, about 15 of them, sideways, in the ditch, everywhere.. The cars in front of me almost stopped, but still hit the sideways cars gently. It was so slick the cars that were hit slid on downhill like curling stones. They hit a snowmobile trailer and knocked them off it. I thought I could stop, but in the rear view mirror I saw more cars coming, and I figured if they had "all season" tires I was doomed, so I kept going, slipping around but in control, weaved around the carnage of cars and snowmobiles and emerged out of the mess with our brand new VW Atlas unscratched. A bit of a miracle, which never would have happened without top of the line studded tires.
We had a section of polished white ice which looked for all the world like packed snow this year. I came around a bend on a downhill section and there were cars everywhere, about 15 of them, sideways, in the ditch, everywhere.. The cars in front of me almost stopped, but still hit the sideways cars gently. It was so slick the cars that were hit slid on downhill like curling stones. They hit a snowmobile trailer and knocked them off it. I thought I could stop, but in the rear view mirror I saw more cars coming, and I figured if they had "all season" tires I was doomed, so I kept going, slipping around but in control, weaved around the carnage of cars and snowmobiles and emerged out of the mess with our brand new VW Atlas unscratched. A bit of a miracle, which never would have happened without top of the line studded tires.
I need (expect) more grip on wet pavement than worn snows can offer. Perhaps I drive a bit "sporty". ;-)
Yes, I'm a control freak and have always bought the best tires for the conditions, but I've also been financially challenged, and have on occasion waited to replace my tires until the tire shop wouldn't honour the life-time flat warranty or until the cords were showing through the sidewall 
. But by that point, I knew that I needed to drive very slowly in slush, and very carefully manage momentum in snow; ice traction on the x-ice with almost no tread was still good. On summer tires, low tread caused them to get too hot, and they felt greasy.
Now I can afford to replace the tires when they reach the wear bars, but I'm still slowing down and keeping the snows on until the legal bars are reached. Some snow tires have winter wear bars and a second set of wear bars at the legal tread depth. If I saw a lot of snow instead of a couple of noteworthy storms per year, I would replace at the winter wear bars.
I usually feel great joy putting the Michelin Pilots back on in the spring. In the fall I need to keep reminding myself to slow down for curves.
. But by that point, I knew that I needed to drive very slowly in slush, and very carefully manage momentum in snow; ice traction on the x-ice with almost no tread was still good. On summer tires, low tread caused them to get too hot, and they felt greasy.Now I can afford to replace the tires when they reach the wear bars, but I'm still slowing down and keeping the snows on until the legal bars are reached. Some snow tires have winter wear bars and a second set of wear bars at the legal tread depth. If I saw a lot of snow instead of a couple of noteworthy storms per year, I would replace at the winter wear bars.
I usually feel great joy putting the Michelin Pilots back on in the spring. In the fall I need to keep reminding myself to slow down for curves.
I love this on the Nokian's:
"The numbers on the center surface of the tire indicate how much of the main groove depth remains on the tread. The snowflake symbol Winter Safety Indicator (WSI) remains visible to a groove depth of four millimetres. Once the snowflake has worn out, the driver should purchase new winter tires to ensure sufficient safety."
https://www.nokiantires.com/innovation/innovations/dsi-and-wsi-indicators-hkpl-8/
https://www.nokiantires.com/innovation/innovations/dsi-and-wsi-indicators-hkpl-8/
Tread depth is critical in the snow, even more so with all-season tires. I've noticed the winter performance of brand new top-shelf Michelin all-season tires is really good the first year. Good enough that I've run them through the winter in Denver on a vehicle I can let sit on the few very bad days.
Don't be fooled, though. The winter performance of all-season tires is short lived and drops off dramatically in subsequent years as they wear. Dedicated snow tires are much better in maintaining their winter performance over time in my experience.
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The new breed of all weather tires is not the best blend of convenience and traction. They have the broadest traction spectrum.
It’s like skiing an all-mountain ski. Remember not long ago when all the luddites were claiming that these skis were dangerous just getting back to the lift?
I have gone sailing through intersections while driving carefully on Nokian Hakkas. My wife would refuse to drive the minivan and would take the Land Cruiser instead, because it had far better traction in every aspect. This tire is an unreal winter tire:
I know - I ran it for about 12 years in every possible condition and it vastly outperformed the so called winter tires. I even took a vid with a camera pointed right at the tire to show how it holds and sheds snow as conditions change. Watch the end - that’s a stop from 25 mph on a 8-9% grade.
If you know what you are looking at, you’ll see a tire that is holding snow and shedding it exactly as you want as depth and conditions change, relying on a very narrow center section harder surface conditions, and with the most important feature of all: high and predictable lateral traction. Lateral slides are by far the most difficult to recover from, and most modern tires rely on the electronic traction control system to perform this function.
There is no reason to canonize any specific setup. Studs are a game changer on ice. You can put studs on the cheapest knockoff winter tire you can find and that tire is still an equal to the most expensive highest tech studless tire on the market.
And so here is the slippery slope
:Why are studless winter tires good enough when they aren’t the best? Because if that argument holds, then a winter rated all weather tire isn’t good enough? Then what is the rating for?
Here’s a little additional rub. The Clear Creek sheriff’s office is smack in the prime I-70 ice corridor. They use Chevy Tahoe’s shod with Goodyear Duratracs. These are your first responders. I wonder why they choose that particular winter rated tire? They aren’t cheap.
To echo most of the thread. AWD and winter specific tires, don't cheap out on your safety, get the best snow tires you can. Blizzaks seem to be the tire of choice for most Alaskan drivers. Also there is a reason that there is a TON of Subarus in Alaska, AWD and we have awesome snow tires for them, both studded and studless. Best car for getting around up here in all seasons. I have a set of winter tires on rims and I switch them to a separate set of summer all weather tires on rims. In fact I'm doing the swap this weekend because winter has finally lost it's hold and the roads have dried out.
My personal recommendation for winter driving (aka, what I really need to get for my wife to drive instead of her Impreza) is a Subaru Crosstrek with Blizzak tires. It's big enough to carry lots of stuff and has enough ground clearance to be useful in all by crazy storm situations.
My personal recommendation for winter driving (aka, what I really need to get for my wife to drive instead of her Impreza) is a Subaru Crosstrek with Blizzak tires. It's big enough to carry lots of stuff and has enough ground clearance to be useful in all by crazy storm situations.
So to sum up this thread:
The only safe winter option is the studded Hakka 9. On any vehicle. Until the studded Hakka X.
The naysayers will say the Hakka X is not selling well and is going to be discontinued, but then the numbers will come out showing it outsold all other tires. Warren Buffet will buy 75 million shares of Nokian and the bull markets will snort a sigh of relief while still secretly believing that Nokian is ultimately doomed because all it does it make tires and other tire companies have a better ecosystem.
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Thread Starter
TS
Great info for moving to CO in a couple months.
To make sure I'm understanding, for my front wheel drive Highlander, I'd be okay with either of these:
First pick: Hakkapallita SUV 9
or
Second pick: Falken Wildpeak A/T3W
With the Falken, I "could" use it year round? Or no?
But with the Hakkapallita, I'd have to take them off for the summer?
BTW, I'm fine with getting a 4x4 or AWD if needed...but I'd rather keep my front wheel drive Highlander if I can get up the mountain in snow storms.
As a side note, I've used cables quite often when really needed and they've worked well. But I've not ever used them in more than four or five inches of snow on the road.
To make sure I'm understanding, for my front wheel drive Highlander, I'd be okay with either of these:
First pick: Hakkapallita SUV 9
or
Second pick: Falken Wildpeak A/T3W
With the Falken, I "could" use it year round? Or no?
But with the Hakkapallita, I'd have to take them off for the summer?
BTW, I'm fine with getting a 4x4 or AWD if needed...but I'd rather keep my front wheel drive Highlander if I can get up the mountain in snow storms.
As a side note, I've used cables quite often when really needed and they've worked well. But I've not ever used them in more than four or five inches of snow on the road.
Studded tires need to come off in the summer in most states that allow them. Hakka 9's have studs. https://www.nokiantires.com/winter-tires/nokian-hakkapeliitta-9
The Hakkas are awesome, but you will have to take them off in April.
The Falken AT3W is a great tire but way to aggressive off road style for your Highlander.
I would go for the Copper ATW's. Year round tire good for snow and on and off road. Nothing crazy but very capable.