When skis are too stiff...

[Jenny]

@Jenny Your Kenjas are 2016s so read what Phil said above about the differences between the 2 years. The 2016 models are more "user" friendly so I think that's a good thing.

Oh that's definitely a good thing - I hope it's good enough . . .

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I had a softer boot until last year. The stiffer boot made a monumental difference in my skiing. I felt for the first time I could really drive the ski. I'm likely not saying it right but I felt like my boot was finally telling the ski what to do.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I had a softer boot until last year. The stiffer boot made a monumental difference in my skiing. I felt for the first time I could really drive the ski. I'm likely not saying it right but I felt like my boot was finally telling the ski what to do.

Too soft is certainly problematic. Presumably you are now in a stiffer, but not too stiff, boot.

I'd say you are now able to tell your skis what to do because the boot translates your message to the ski effectively.

 

[PisteOff]

I'm a firm believer that matching the boot flex to the ski flex and then collectively to your ability are vital to development. As you progress you step it up until you end up at a point where you've achieved your goals and are skiing how and where you want to you competently and comfortably. I have 3 different flex boots and skis all over the spectrum. I match them accordingly when I ski them. I'm nowhere's near where I want to be with my off piste steep and big mountain skiing. I'm expecting the Renoun Endurance 98's and my Head Challenger 120 boots will be the tools I need to really start progressing there and will be spending a lot of time working on it this year. Note: I am 6' 1" and 200 lbs.

 

[PTskier]

One of the stiffest and burliest skis ever produced, the K2 VO Slalom, not only didn't have metal, it was a foam core ski, so it didn't even have a wood core!

Think of a ski as a box girder. Top and bottom layers of fiberglass and sides of either ABS plastic or ultra high molecular weight (UHMW) polyethylene. Keep everything else the same and the farther apart the top and bottom fiberglass layers are (thicker ski) the stiffer the ski will be. A longer ski can be made stiffer than the shorter models just by making the core thicker.

Skis need to respond to the energy the skier puts into them. The heavy, tall, fast skier on anything but the longest/stiffest will think they're on noodles. The slower featherweight skier on anything but the shortest/softest will think they're on 2x4s. For my size and energy level the next to longest/stiffest in most ski lines works very well for me.

Stiff boots are great...IF the boots put the skier into the correct stance for them (along with binding delta angle). I've been in 130 flex boots for years, and I'm skiing better than ever in the current ones that are a stiff 130 (we know the flex labeling is as fluid as a politician's promises). I'm skiing well in them due to the stiffness at the correct stance for me. I've had great ski coaches in 150 flex plug boots and great coaches in much softer flexy boots, maybe 110 or 120. Personal preference. Stiff boots transfer movements to the skis much more quickly than soft boots with less lost motion in the legs. Stiff boots provide better leverage to recenter one after being off balance. I don't change the buckles or top strap whether on hard pack or moguls or powder. I used to teach beginners while I wore my Dobermann 130s. They work for me everywhere.

 

[tinymoose]

Being a former lightweight (110 lbs soakin wet) I get the struggle.. even now i'm 170 and less than athletic and some skis are just too stiff unless i'm breakneck speeds.

I remember the first time i really bent a ski. was flying down the face at Orford towards the lodge.. it's a decent slope.. and I was on... tyrolia GSX skis and i was FLYING.. i think i made 3 carved turns down the face.. some how i survived.. had no idea what i was doing in hindsight.. except after that trip i went and bought some Kastle all mountain skis. All of a sudden I could bend the ski anywhere.. at even moderate speeds.. game changer.. the whole hill opened up.. Then I moved to the flat lands and didn't go skiing for another 20 years. Too stiff a boot is survivable.. to stiff a ski.. just isn't fun.

This was me at Big Sky when I demoed the Yumis. I'd always heard about the pop in skis from the tail, but had never experienced myself. First time it happened on the Yumis it caught me off guard and kinda startled me! It was all such an "Oh, so this is what it feels like to bend a ski..." moment.

 

[tinymoose]

At least you were receptive to the suggestions of backing it down a level or two. I start the season with a screw out of my boots, it goes back in about mid season and it's crazy how much of a difference it makes.

Yes and no. Can only take credit for so much b/c a lot of it was just dumb luck and a really good bootfitter who finally worked out what the issue was. lol

The boot... I was, at the time, already on a desperate search for boots I could flex. Even very soft jr. boots... once I'd get in them... I couldn't move them much, if at all. As it turns out b/c my feet are very large compared to the rest of tiny me... we had to downsize me from a 23.5 into the next size down to get the boot cuffs low enough on my shin so I can flex them. Issue was too much of my leg was encapsulated in the boot cuff in my normal boot size, essentially locking me in place. Now that I'm in a smaller boot (after much punching and grinding), I can flex them b/c as the boot size goes down the cuff is also lower.

The skis... were only b/c I was demoing jr. twin tips (in my avatar)... K2 Bad Seeds, and a friend who is a VERY good skier commented I wasn't bending them well. So I then realized that if I wasn't bending them well, I probably also wasn't bending my Kenjas well. So that started the search for a new, less stiff ski.

 

[Marker]

Skis need to respond to the energy the skier puts into them. The heavy, tall, fast skier on anything but the longest/stiffest will think they're on noodles.

I have moved to the stiffest part of the recreational spectrum because I'm 6' 6", 230 lb. After going over the handlebars too many times, I traded in Lange RX 100 boots for Lange RS 130's for the narrower last and stiffness. I wanted 120 or 130's, but getting the proper fit required the RS because the RX LV was not available in 30.5. At the same time, I got Elan Amphibio 88 XTi's in 186 cm. First time out, I thought I might have over shot the mark. Skiing slowly was difficult, but by that afternoon things started to come alive. I now have confidence they won't give up on me at speed on the black runs, which was not true on my old set up. I added Rossi Hero Elite LT Ti's in 183 cm last year, and have some problems in cruddy conditions, but a blast on the groomed. At my level, I feel a little silly in the liftline next to the speed racer kids with their blue Langes and red Heros, but I'm at least twice their weight!

 

[Doug Briggs]

One aspect of boot design that gets little mention is the designation SC or Short Cuff. Lange offers this. I don't know who else does. This is another way to get the skier into the right boot.

 

[AmyPJ]

I have a pair of 2016 Kenjas that I LOVED in 2016 when I weighed about 127 pounds. Last season, I was down 10 pounds and I just could NOT drive those skis anymore. I'm back up to 127 (or more, depending on beer consumption) so I might take them out again this season to see if I like them again.

Anyway, I found it interesting that a 10 pound weight loss (12% of body weight) made that much of a difference in my ability to bend a ski. Granted, the Kenjas are a VERY stiff ski, but I had no trouble on them at all the year prior. I think that the weight loss also contributed to a loss of overall power, even though I felt great at that weight, I was pretty thin.

 

[Lorenzzo]

Stiffness can be a little confusing. Living in ski country, sometimes I hear the stiffer the better. Less frequently I hear complaining about too much stiffness. I just go about my business and do the best I can.

 

[Philpug]

Does the Stockli Laser AX have metal in it?

Yes it does.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Yes it does.

Thanks boss.

I'd read something that said it was metal free but I'd heard from somewhere else it has metal. It's super easy to ski and doesn't seem heavy like my charismas I just sold.

I was just curious about the metal so figured I'd ask the expert.

 

[Pequenita]

I'm a firm believer that matching the boot flex to the ski flex and then collectively to your ability are vital to development. As you progress you step it up until you end up at a point where you've achieved your goals and are skiing how and where you want to you competently and comfortably. I have 3 different flex boots and skis all over the spectrum. I match them accordingly when I ski them.

I have a similar approach. Pretty much I ski my softest ski and boots early season until I have my ski legs.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I'm a firm believer that matching the boot flex to the ski flex and then collectively to your ability are vital to development. As you progress you step it up until you end up at a point where you've achieved your goals and are skiing how and where you want to you competently and comfortably. I have 3 different flex boots and skis all over the spectrum. I match them accordingly when I ski them. I'm nowhere's near where I want to be with my off piste steep and big mountain skiing. I'm expecting the Renoun Endurance 98's and my Head Challenger 120 boots will be the tools I need to really start progressing there and will be spending a lot of time working on it this year. Note: I am 6' 1" and 200 lbs.

I have a similar approach. Pretty much I ski my softest ski and boots early season until I have my ski legs.

I am curious how you determine the time for a soft boot and a soft ski. Why ski the softest ski and softest boots early season?

 

[oldschoolskier]

I tend to lean towards stiff side on both skis and boots for all levels of skiers except for brand new skiers.

Before anyone says anything yes there is too stiff.

Soft equipment IMHO tends to limit skiers as they progress especially if they are aggressive. The reason for that is a correct action is forgiven by the soft equipment making it feel like and behave like a wrong action.

If on the stiffer side, as long as you can do the action, you can progress and will develop strength.

If too stiff, you fight the action and may not complete it correctly learning bad habits to compensate.

Most importantly a boot must be able to transfer the energy to the ski. The stiffer the ski the boot must match. Softer skis and stiffer boots is ok.

 

[PisteOff]

I am curious how you determine the time for a soft boot and a soft ski. Why ski the softest ski and softest boots early season?

Personally, if I am on a small Michigan ski "hill" I am doing one of four things and they are always on groomers. 1) I am doing NASTAR which I outfit accordingly. 2) I am out on a day off or night skiing after work where I am usually pushing myself and my carving on a few different skis that are either my racers or my pursuits. I'm in a 120 boot. 3) I'm skiing with my son working on his technique and I'm either set up like 1 or 2 or I am in a medium flex ski in Full Tilt First Chair 6 flex boot (approx 100). 4) I am skiing with the grandkids and I am definitely on a med flex ski and boot combo like 3. For me it's slower speeds equal a softer setup.

 

[Pequenita]

I am curious how you determine the time for a soft boot and a soft ski. Why ski the softest ski and softest boots early season?

I figure I'm weaker in the early season because I haven't spent the time building up ski muscles and stamina. It's not an exact science.

ETA: At some point, around mid-January, I'm pretty much over skiing the soft setup except in the backcountry.

 

[Marty McSly]

I'm a firm believer that matching the boot flex to the ski flex and then collectively to your ability are vital to development.

This.

 

[Philpug]

I'm a firm believer that matching the boot flex to the ski flex and then collectively to your ability are vital to development.

I am a firm believer in matching boot flex to flexion of the ankle first.