When skis are too stiff...

[Philpug]

@tinymoose :
Nordica Belle to Belle 78 @ 154
Kicker Filibuster 73 @ 155
Renoun Z-77 77 @ 157 (have not tried these yet).

That Filibuster was a really good ski. I have a 169 here that I would love to find a good home for.

 

[kimberlin]

That Filibuster was a really good ski. I have a 169 here that I would love to find a good home for.

I guess it's no secret that I prefer narrower widths! The Filibuster is lively, pays attention, obedient, and just wants to have fun. Think Golden Retriever with a bite that holds like a Rottweiler on hard snow.


I had a Praxis 98 Le Petite for awhile too. (it was a tad too wide for my size I think, despite it being a really nice ski.)
There may be a mid-eighties width in my future, but it isn't on the "to-do" list.

 

[Wendy]

@tinymoose, try Idlewild Ski Shop by ELK Mountain. They do half and full day rentals of "high" performance demo skis, i.e., the desirable new crop which includes Head. However, for your length, I'd suggest calling ahead.
http://www.idlewildskishop.com/

@tinymoose , I’ll do a day trip with ya!

 

[Wendy]

DING DING DING. This is one of the first things look for in a ski is how balanced the flex is, especially in the mid body. This is one of the things that kept people coming back to the original Nordica Enforcer, it was a very balanced flex. Theres are times when we refer to a ski being "blocky", that is refering to the ski not bending in the middle of the ski.

Something I now pay attention to! The light bulb went off when I skied my ID One FRXP’s....and immediately noticed the nice even flex that made the ski friendly and fun, while posessing torsional guts that allowed it to hold an edge on skied off stuff and rip nice GS turns.

My Stockli SR100’s, while stiffer, still have that even flex that makes them compliant in varied terrain.

@Philpug what about the ski’s construction contributes to this balanced flex, vs. the “blocky” characteristic you describe?

 

[neonorchid]

@tinymoose , I’ll do a day trip with ya!

Hey, what about me!

Afterall, it was my idea and I wouldn't mind renting a Head Kore 93.

Post when, maybe we can get a few more Pugs to show up. I'm ~2 hours away at Montana speed limits and like to sleep late so I'll meet everyone there. Prefer going around a natural snow event. Sometimes mid-week can be an option.

 

[Wendy]

Hey, what about me!

Afterall, it was my idea and I wouldn't mind renting a Head Kore 93.

Post when, maybe we can get a few more Pugs to show up. I'm ~2 hours away at Montana speed limits and like to sleep late so I'll meet everyone there. Prefer going around a natural snow event. Sometimes mid-week can be an option.

I’m game for demoing a Head Core, too....just for kicks.

 

[Uncle-A]

she did go down this route before. we bought her a pair of fischer jr rc-4 gs skis for the racing clinic we attend. she really liked those. she had two pair of jr twin tip skis....a kastle and a line. both didn't work out. @tinymoose, did i leave anything out??

What Kastle Jr ? What did it not do to make it not work out? I have not found a Kastle, new company or old company that when matched to a skier did not work.

 

[cantunamunch]

@tinymoose :
Kicker Filibuster 73 @ 155.

A very much under-rated ski. Shame the POTUS got all the Countervail goodies and marketing - the Filibuster was a gem.

Can of worms time: I think you would enjoy the feel of Zag skis.

 

[James]

All that said, if I get a dollar every time I get yelled at by someone whom I recommended the Kendo to. I could have a pretty nice dinner at Red Lobster. To the extend If it is possible to have a nice dinner at Red Lobster.

I'll contribute to dessert...
I hated the Kendo. Bleh.

I think you can learn a lot skiing a soft ski. If you just twist and smear it they don't work so well. You'll much prefer the stiff one.
At speed you have to be very, very careful. And still it's dicey.
Then you get on something with beef and find yourself skiing faster thinking, "oh this is what I was missing"

 

[LiquidFeet]

Overview response to the thread title:

My first skis (I started skiing at age 53) were stiff Atomic slalom skis. I was an aggressive beginner with not a clue. I did not know how to bend them, and consequently did not. The only way to make a turn happen was to aggressively pivot the skis. I usually choose not to generalize from my personal experience to the world, but in this case I'll go out on a limb and say that if a skier buys skis too stiff when they are novices, no matter how aggressive their attitude and ego, they will not learn easily how to handle skis the best way. I taught myself to "twist and skid" my skis on those things. They set my progress way back.

Beginner, novice, and intermediate skiers of every sort, seeking to grow their skills, IMHO, need to get a bendable ski that's coordinated to their bend-ze-ski-skill-level.

 

[François Pugh]

Overview response to the thread title:

My first skis (I started skiing at age 53) were stiff Atomic slalom skis. I was an aggressive beginner with not a clue. I did not know how to bend them, and consequently did not. The only way to make a turn happen was to aggressively pivot the skis. I usually choose not to generalize from my personal experience to the world, but in this case I'll go out on a limb and say that if a skier buys skis too stiff when they are novices, no matter how aggressive their attitude and ego, they will not learn easily how to handle skis the best way. I taught myself to "twist and skid" my skis on those things. They set my progress way back.

Beginner, novice, and intermediate skiers of every sort, seeking to grow their skills, IMHO, need to get a bendable ski that's coordinated to their bend-ze-ski-skill-level.

Interesting. Despite learning on stiff skis, I seem to have had the opposite learning experience.

My first skis that I bought for myself were Dynastar GS skis, I had spent some time on Army Surplus skis that probably had seen service in Italy in WW2, but not that many days. I suspect those Dynastars might have been junior skis; they were only 180 cm long, and they were not stable at high speeds. After a season on them I left them at home and rented longer GS skis.

I self-taught myself how to ski via the old snow-plough progression, which was in vogue before the gliding wedge method.

I learned very quickly how to tip my skis up onto a big edge angle and carve high speed turns. I didn't learn how to pivot skis until about fifteen years ago when I decided to learn "proper" mogul skiing.

 

[CrystalRose]

I can't remember if it's been hashed out in the pages before but how do you know if a ski is too stiff? I just bought my first set of skis and I'm hoping that they aren't too stiff... What sensation or lack there of will you feel?

 

[François Pugh]

I can't remember if it's been hashed out in the pages before but how do you know if a ski is too stiff? I just bought my first set of skis and I'm hoping that they aren't too stiff... What sensation or lack there of will you feel?

Like someone said somewhere, you will have trouble bending them into a curve.

It's much easier to tell with modern skis that have a side cut radius between 10 m and 20 m. Just go rent an ordinary rental ski; it won't be too stiff. All you have to do is tip your ski on edge and put your weight on it and it will bend. If you find that at the speeds you like to ski your ski doesn't want to let you put it into a bend and you sort of have to ski faster than you like skiing or have to force the ski into a turn (as compared to the rental ski), then your ski is too stiff.

 

[QueueCT]

...If you find that at the speeds you like to ski your ski doesn't want to let you put it into a bend and you sort of have to ski faster than you like skiing or have to force the ski into a turn (as compared to the rental ski), then your ski is too stiff.

This is what I find interesting. I have a pair of RTM 81 that are about 5 years old now. When properly tuned they will rail GS turns. At good speed (45 mph or so). But try and turn them at 15 mph and you're just riding the sidecut.

Shame they don't have any camber as the "pop" out of turns is noticeably missing. I'm in the market for something snappier but trying to figure out the right stiffness profile.

 

[Dwight]

This is what I find interesting. I have a pair of RTM 81 that are about 5 years old now. When properly tuned they will rail GS turns. At good speed (45 mph or so). But try and turn them at 15 mph and you're just riding the sidecut.

Shame they don't have any camber as the "pop" out of turns is noticeably missing. I'm in the market for something snappier but trying to figure out the right stiffness profile.

Try the newer RTMs, much different.

 

[Slim]

.... but gave me a love of powder and soft snow. Nobody else has those preferences...

Eric

I actually read a thread on alpinforum, where two of eight contributors happened to mention that “if there’s fresh snow, I stay home”, and they were not kidding(thread was about carving ski choice).
I wish those people would have lots of kids....

 

[Swede]

Hey, I love tilted hockey rinks. Nothing can ruin a good morning of gate bashing like a foot or two of fresh snow.

 

[cantunamunch]

I guess it's no secret that I prefer narrower widths! The Filibuster is lively, pays attention, obedient, and just wants to have fun. Think Golden Retriever with a bite that holds like a Rottweiler on hard snow.


I had a Praxis 98 Le Petite for awhile too. (it was a tad too wide for my size I think, despite it being a really nice ski.)
There may be a mid-eighties width in my future, but it isn't on the "to-do" list.

Bump for Filibuster stoke

 

[Fuller]

Well I read the whole thread - now I know why my wife's first skis were 2014 Kenjas. Blame it on the Divas! But at least for her it was a good choice, they're still her daily drivers.

 

[dan ross]

Too Stiff?! I spent a season and a half on these - Henke Stratos on top of Dynamic VR17’s ( STIFF) with a Look toe and a Marker heel. Flex rating? 180? 200? 2000? There is NO hinge for flexure and huge stainless straps! Foam? If you consider concrete foam, than these were “ foamed” . To this day, I have a scar on my right heel and no hair has grown on my shins since it was barely growing -1975.
I learned to ski at the tail end of the leather boot era and I firmly believe skiers developed a level of snow sensitivity if they spent time in softer leather boots. Things boot wise are so much better now but until recently I would err towards a touch too stiff knowing they would break down and I was still strong enough to flex them . Remember, unless your racing, the primary goal is FUN!