When skiing, who actually picks a particular turn point?

[CalG]

Much like skiing gates, but more like "I want to ski over THAT particular point during my turn".

Tight tree skiing demands as much. Do we try for the same when on the wide and groomed?

I believe this aspect is why I enjoy skiing broken "crud" as much as I do. I pick my points.

Veni
Vidi
Vici

Paying attention is part of the enjoyment.

 

[Josh Matta]

a turn point? no....

a path, all the time. I am actively choosing my desired path all the time.

 

[CalG]

A line is a series of points...............

 

[mdf]

On open slopes, I pick a specific spot fairly rarely. Maybe a third of my turns or less. Most of the time my line is driven by other (often semi-conscious) considerations: move away from traffic, keep or change turn size, avoid blind spots, etc.

 

[François Pugh]

I choose the whole line including the apex. I guess you could say the apex is my turn point. Sometimes I change my choice on the fly.

 

[slowrider]

My turn shape is usually dependent on terrain changes.

 

[CalG]

My turn shape is usually dependent on terrain changes.

Yes, Turn SHAPE is anti thesis to turn location. It's getting coincidence that brings mastery.

 

[Bad Bob]

Trees absolutely, anywhere else very little is absolute. On ballroom probably no, on rollers and bumps for sure.
Being rather lazy it doesn't require much terrain to get me to use it for turn initiation.

 

[François Pugh]

Trees absolutely, anywhere else very little is absolute. On ballroom probably no, on rollers and bumps for sure.
Being rather lazy it doesn't require much terrain to get me to use it for turn initiation.

I find it more fun to use terrain ignoration and adapt my skiing to absorb the terrain while maintaining my choice of turning points. However, I will admit it's all good fun no matter what you do.

 

[CalG]

Trees absolutely, anywhere else very little is absolute. On ballroom probably no, on rollers and bumps for sure.
Being rather lazy it doesn't require much terrain to get me to use it for turn initiation.

Terrain turns are an excellent incentive! Much like wind blown over ice. Served up 'New England Style'.

Fog will serve as well.

Can you tell?
The intent is INTENT! ?

 

[Fishbowl]

Great question. I feel much more confident in trees and bumps than I do on open groomers, and I think it is because the decision where to turn is somewhat taken away from me on uneven terrain. Because I could turn anywhere on a groomer, I seem to hesitate and can't turn anywhere. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone but me, but the indecision can be paralyzing. The trees and bumps seem to make my turning choices for me, and I just focus on the flow. I feeling that for most recreational skiers the opposite is true, they feel paralyzed in the trees with indecision, but feel free to turn wherever they choose on the groomers?

 

[eok]

When a young 'grub, I was taught to assess, choose a path, designate targets on the path for turns and execute. Then freestyle happened and "path" & "target" became more abstract concepts. ;^)

 

[CalG]

Great question. I feel much more confident in trees and bumps than I do on open groomers, and I think it is because the decision where to turn is somewhat taken away from me on uneven terrain. Because I could turn anywhere on a groomer, I seem to hesitate and can't turn anywhere. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone but me, but the indecision can be paralyzing. The trees and bumps seem to make my turning choices for me, and I just focus on the flow. I feeling that for most recreational skiers the opposite is true, they feel paralyzed in the trees with indecision, but feel free to turn wherever they choose on the groomers?

I believe the paralysis is related to the term "shopping for turns".

Not this....not now...not here... then Nowhere!.

Happens all the time.

I could like to improve my ability to get OFF an old turn that isn't doing me any good as soon as I feel that it's going nowhere.
The next turn holds so much more promise .... ;-)

 

[Ron]

on a powder day or day after, yes, but purely for fun. I choose a line but when skiing off piste, I will pick a turn location if I feel it's advantageous to the flow of the line. For instance, coming through trees, I see that making a turn around a feature at a certain angle/distance will set me up better for the rest of the line, I'll take it. I cant ski the line without making some kind of calculation in my turn cadence or turn shape.

 

[cantunamunch]

A line is a series of points...............

There's a Zeno's paradox joke in there, I'm sure of it. At every point in time, there is no motion, because there is no time and no distance for it to occur in.

Since we know empirically that the turtle gets caught, it is far more logically sound to conclude that there are no such things as points - unless we are doing calculus

on a powder day or day after, yes, but purely for fun. I choose a line but when skiing off piste, I will pick a turn location if I feel it's advantageous to the flow of the line. For instance, coming through trees, I see that making a turn around a feature at a certain angle/distance will set me up better for the rest of the line, I'll take it. I cant ski the line without making some kind of calculation in my turn cadence or turn shape.

You will perceive that there is an experimental question there, begging to be asked: How short a calculation time do you actually need? In tight trees you cannot see the line except for maybe one-two turns ahead, so what is the minimum below which it is unskiable?

Personally, I think we cheat in such terrain. Instead of calculating, we apply pre-existing solutions (turn shapes and cadence) instead of solving to actual conditions. And, for OP's intents and purposes, the time at which we decide to trust our previous conditioning instead of analyzing our observations is a "point". Possibly the most significant one we can find in all skiing.

 

[Ron]

There's a Zeno's paradox joke in there, I'm sure of it. At every point in time, there is no motion, because there is no time and no distance for it to occur in.

which is why time is only a measure of distance over consecutive moments

 

[cantunamunch]

which is why time is only a measure of distance over consecutive moments

Editing time cross posting

And there is a hidden play on the words "shopping for turns" - since our pre-existing turn shapes and cadence are dominated by our gear choices, we are, literally, shopping for turns.

 

[blackke17]

some days in the trees or moguls i feel like i'm looking through the bionic eye on the Six Million Dollar Man Action Figure picking out my lines .

Groomers , get lazy and go wherever

 

[Ron]

You will perceive that there is an experimental question there, begging to be asked: How short a calculation time do you actually need? In tight trees you cannot see the line except for maybe one-two turns ahead, so what is the minimum below which it is unskiable?

Personally, I think we cheat in such terrain. Instead of calculating, we apply pre-existing solutions (turn shapes and cadence) instead of solving to actual conditions. And, for OP's intents and purposes, the time at which we decide to trust our previous conditioning instead of analyzing our observations is a "point". Possibly the most significant one we can find in all skiing.

ahh, Ok, so evolution allows the human brain to make most decisions in 1/10th of a second so you actually have adequate time to adjust in some manner otherwise you would be skiing in a pure assumptive manner which is not possible in tight trees. However, in aspens, which we ski more of, you can easily look down a line and scope out 3-5 turns without issue. I typically ski at least 3 turns ahead. That as you know, this allows the brain a little more time to react and adjust even if that's not purely conscious.(same thing for mountain biking)

 

[Plai]

In general, yes I pick my points... but, it depends..

On (near) empty groomers and if I'm working on technique, the turns are often measured, more even, deliberate. If the groomer is more crowded, I bisect the remaining width (if there's room to pass), and that's my turn. It's when I relax that the skis remind me, that's "not a good" idea so I'm back to "driving the skis".

In bumps, I'm (still) shopping for a turn. That said, I'm forcing myself every time to shorten the time between turns and make the radius smaller, keep my zipper facing fall line. Not always successful, but I see improvement.