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When skiing, who actually picks a particular turn point?
- Thread starter CalG
- Start date
You’re not serious are you? At least around here most L3s wouldn’t be remotely competitive against U14s, maybe not even U12s! The ones that would be are ex-racers themselves, certainly not a majority at all.
I use my poles quite actively when making skidded turns on steeps and bumps.
The pole plant is a key part of old school up or down unweighting but when you are rolling edge to edge it becomes problematic.
For carved turns, I think "phantom" pole plants with both hands forward and a still upper body is the better way to go.
Watch some World Cup and you will see what I am talking about, in GS and speed events there isn't much pole planting.
Actually planting your pole at upwards of 40 mph upsets the flow of carving and I have gotten away from it.
In NASTAR and beer league you have to ski mostly in a high tuck with no pole action at all.
No pole plants here at all, just the arm duck to clear the gate.
I generally agree but at my resort, Nubs, there is racing 5 days a week and some instructors are very competitive.
My best ski buddy was the fastest guy on the hill for a number of years.
This is a unique area where the fastest guy on the ski team in high school is considered more of a stud than the football quarterback.
Not many places like that but there is a reason why both Lindsey and Mikela came from Midwest bumps.
When you don't have much vertical, gates are a way to stay interested in the sport and let the competitive juices flow.
I just point at the camera & hope I don’t hit the cameraman...
PC: Chris Morgan
PC: Chris Morgan
Same at squaw.
I can tell you from experience that planting a pole at high speed results in a broken radius at the wrist, which results in skiing without poles for the rest of the day.
That's a pretty sweet edge angle.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2016
- Posts
- 310
Haven't read the whole thread but have been thinking of the title concept the last few days on the hill. I have no racing background and generally avoid the groom. I think the only time I don't project my line a few turns ahead is on fresh corduroy. Whether it's picking a line through bumps and/or trees or looking for loose piles of snow on the polished runouts, I'm always making deliberate decisions about my path....I think more about turn shape than turn point but for the most part I'm always trying to go there, then there, then there in the most efficient, fluid and fun fashion. Sometimes in bumps and cruddy cut pow I like to prioritize turn shape (big arcs) and deal with the terrain as it comes.
On ballroom groomers with traffic, I ski an imaginary lane. The more crowded it is, the narrower the lane. The lane determines the tempo; I seek symmetrical turns with the tempo that allows me to stay in the lane. Fast and edged turns, or slow and drifted ones, my choice of speed impacts the tempo. I'm not looking from apex to apex. I'm paying attention to the lane and my tempo.
On the same groomer without traffic, I vary my turn size just for fun. I look ahead to ski from apex to apex.
I was once asked by an examiner to choose how many turns I'd make from here to that tree over there on a nice flat groomer. Then I was supposed to ski and make that number of turns. I couldn't do it, as perspective kicks in and hey there are no variations in the snow surface so how was I supposed to find each apex ahead of time? At that point I was an awful skier too. I assume race-trained skiers can do this easily since they learn to memorize the courses during course inspection. I haven't tried this again, but suppose I'd still find it difficult to do.
In New England trees, the bumps ahead determine where I go. If there are choices, I pick which bump I head towards as I'm going, without a "lane" choice. I aim for the wall on the outside of the trough, so that might count as a "particular turn point." When things are going well I'm looking two-three turns ahead. Not looking two-three turns ahead is sometimes necessary (for me) if the bumps are quite irregular. Everything else is subservient to the turn location predetermined by skiers before me. Tempo is thrown out the door as the bumps are not symmetrical. My personal challenge is to maintain a constant speed.
In a wide open bump field, my ADD kicks in and causes confusion. So many options!! Choosing to ski straight down the fall line narrows the choices and allows me to get going. Again, constant downhill travel speed becomes a goal.
I used to do beer league racing. Then the apex of every turn had to be identified and hopefully made. But I don't race any more.
So to answer the OP's question, I pretty much only look from apex to apex when skiing bumps or trees (with bumps). Otherwise, it's lane width and tempo.
On the same groomer without traffic, I vary my turn size just for fun. I look ahead to ski from apex to apex.
I was once asked by an examiner to choose how many turns I'd make from here to that tree over there on a nice flat groomer. Then I was supposed to ski and make that number of turns. I couldn't do it, as perspective kicks in and hey there are no variations in the snow surface so how was I supposed to find each apex ahead of time? At that point I was an awful skier too. I assume race-trained skiers can do this easily since they learn to memorize the courses during course inspection. I haven't tried this again, but suppose I'd still find it difficult to do.
In New England trees, the bumps ahead determine where I go. If there are choices, I pick which bump I head towards as I'm going, without a "lane" choice. I aim for the wall on the outside of the trough, so that might count as a "particular turn point." When things are going well I'm looking two-three turns ahead. Not looking two-three turns ahead is sometimes necessary (for me) if the bumps are quite irregular. Everything else is subservient to the turn location predetermined by skiers before me. Tempo is thrown out the door as the bumps are not symmetrical. My personal challenge is to maintain a constant speed.
In a wide open bump field, my ADD kicks in and causes confusion. So many options!! Choosing to ski straight down the fall line narrows the choices and allows me to get going. Again, constant downhill travel speed becomes a goal.
I used to do beer league racing. Then the apex of every turn had to be identified and hopefully made. But I don't race any more.
So to answer the OP's question, I pretty much only look from apex to apex when skiing bumps or trees (with bumps). Otherwise, it's lane width and tempo.
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Ski chair shadow slalom is one of my favourite games to play.
Recently, when I'm doing family ski, with my nephew or other int. skiers, I ski behind them both exactly .5 turns uphill, mirroring their turns to trying to perfectly close off the figure 8s (like figure 8 powder competitions).
This also gives a sliver of protection to them from collisions from uphill skiers.
I paid attention to this for the last two days of skiing, on a fairly wide open run. Usually I plan my entire path, every point, but I don't focus on any one point. If the run is empty and I'm free to turn where ever I will, then I focus on the turn, the point at which I release my centre of mass from the turn, speed at which I relax the outside leg, point at which skis go through flat, point at which I drive the tips to start the next turn, but in time not space; I let the skis go where ever with respect to the passing snow. As soon as another skier comes close enough that there is a possibility that we might intercept one another, I revert to choosing my path, which changes on the fly depending on the actions of other skiers.
^ yeah, like that.
I too often ski the same runs same lines over and over again. I particularly like the convex areas on the side if groomers. They let you be pretty playful with how you ski them. Lots of fun.
Mikela who?
Well, that's the ideal - have the pole touch be a statement: "I'm deciding to turn now." Instead of turn shopping it's a cue to keep turning regardless. In the absence of guidance from the snow, pick a rhythm and stick to it. On groomer this is easy. In bumps, definitely requires (for me) more courage to decide to turn. Fake it 'til you make it.
I pick a turn shape and then adjust the terrain or circumstances to achieve it.. side effect of only having groomers to ski 99% of the time.. line doesn't matter.. speed doesn't really matter.. only how hard i'm laying them over or bringing the tips around.. sometimes a lot of turns.. most times not many.. i'll slow down for crowds or children.. but generally not change up my turns.. There are a few exceptions of course.. i'll shop for turns to setup the proper entrance to gullies that are multiple fall line situations.. think like natural half pipes where slopes converge.. getting horizontal (or less than) on the bank during a carve is like winning the lottery.. or getting a light drifty carve in an off camber situation.. not many places that this can be accomplished where I ski.. so I'll seek out those challenges and set them up if they're there.
I rarely get into the bumps any more.. as they're usually glare ice, hard as rocks, and getting it wrong means a bad, usually long, drive home.
So basically like the Byrds say..
To everything turn, turn, turn
There is a season turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose
Under heaven
A time to be born (arrive at hill), a time to die (last chair)
A time to (pole) plant, a time to reap (powder)
A time to kill (gates), a time to heal (chair ride)
A time to laugh (it went well), a time to weep (yard sale..)
I rarely get into the bumps any more.. as they're usually glare ice, hard as rocks, and getting it wrong means a bad, usually long, drive home.
So basically like the Byrds say..
To everything turn, turn, turn
There is a season turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose
Under heaven
A time to be born (arrive at hill), a time to die (last chair)
A time to (pole) plant, a time to reap (powder)
A time to kill (gates), a time to heal (chair ride)
A time to laugh (it went well), a time to weep (yard sale..)
"That day, I suddenly realized I was no longer driving conscious. I was in a different dimension, for me. I was in a tunnel, well beyond my conscious understanding"
- Ayrton Senna (on his qualifying lap at '88 Monte Carlo Grand Prix)
On plain old groomed runs with no "interest factor" I don't, but if there's stumps and rocks, you better bet I'm picking my turn point.
Now, in treed areas with moguls, I'm not that great a skier that my "turn point" ends up being exactly where I actually turn, so I might be re-evaluating the next turn quite a lot based on where I ended up on the last turn. Which means my progress could be mighty disjointed. We don't have these lovely treed areas that you can see around the trees that well which they apparently have down in Steamboat, for instance. And then there's these tree well thingies. So I'm pretty focused on survival, not line. I can't see much line sometimes.
Now, in treed areas with moguls, I'm not that great a skier that my "turn point" ends up being exactly where I actually turn, so I might be re-evaluating the next turn quite a lot based on where I ended up on the last turn. Which means my progress could be mighty disjointed. We don't have these lovely treed areas that you can see around the trees that well which they apparently have down in Steamboat, for instance. And then there's these tree well thingies. So I'm pretty focused on survival, not line. I can't see much line sometimes.
