-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
The Great Plate Debate
Are you sure?
The Speedflex doesn't give you any of the fun damping options and the lift is minimal - but you still have to use the racey binding because of the mounting pattern so the lift is actually not that far off what some of the non-race bindings would give you if mounted directly.
If you're not trying to muck with mounting point, I'm having trouble seeing Speedflex as a good or somehow optimal solution.
Maybe I am missing something. The WCR 14 plate has a 14mm rise with an optional dampening kit. Very cool but a little much for what I am thinking and then there is the added weight. The speed flex is 13 mm but lighter and no dampening kit. This laser will be a mainly front side hard snow carver and not is any race /beer league events. Just carving and cruising with my teenagers and grand kids. Plus in talking with Colorado Discount Skis' about the two the speed flex seemed to be the recommended choice based on my needs.
To me, from experience, a full spectrum of plates/bindings on this type of ski can be wonderful, on a spectrum of playful and precise to more race-like and precise.
Probably no relationship, but I wonder what the comparison is between the Head/Tyrolia Speedflex plate and the plastic factory plate for the Rebel WC iSpeed [non-pro]?
The WCR plate is the one used on the Head WC Rebel iSpeed Pros (as seen on the Head website), whereas that lesser plastic plate comes from the factory on the WC Rebel iSpeed [non-pro]. As I mentioned elsewhere, the non-pro with its flimsy plate is the ski Franz Klammer apparently prefers as his main recreational ski, I was told by a Head rep who knows him and has skied with him a bunch, family with family also. (In my experience, it's more playful that way.)
The rep told me Franz turns heads on that ski all day, but he's using it to ski casually, recreationally, with family and friends, much as the OP intends to use his Stockli SXes.)
I notice on Head's website discussion of the two skis, they don't mention the difference between the plates, just the skis. In the past, I was often told that the only difference between the Pro and non-pro was that plate. Now not sure.
Still, the point here, to me, is that the lesser plate on the same or nearly the same ski can be the best choice for many, including Franz Klammer often, apparently.
To quote Head on the non-pro & Franz Klammer, backing up what the rep told me (and showed me on his iPhone):
DESCRIPTION
The World Cup Rebels i.Speed is the little brother of the World Cup Rebels i.Speed Pro. It features a more forgiving construction with increased edge angles. Therefore, it turns more easily and is more forgiving of errors. Vibration is absorbed better. This gives you a smoother ride and you can launch wider turns. Because you use less energy, you can stay out on the piste all day long. As an advanced skier, you can really get the most out of this race ski. And when it comes to fine carving turns, the ski of choice for Franz Klammer is also your dream companion.
To me, this tends to confirm the OP's sort of plate choice for his Stocklis.
Probably no relationship, but I wonder what the comparison is between the Head/Tyrolia Speedflex plate and the plastic factory plate for the Rebel WC iSpeed [non-pro]?
The WCR plate is the one used on the Head WC Rebel iSpeed Pros (as seen on the Head website), whereas that lesser plastic plate comes from the factory on the WC Rebel iSpeed [non-pro]. As I mentioned elsewhere, the non-pro with its flimsy plate is the ski Franz Klammer apparently prefers as his main recreational ski, I was told by a Head rep who knows him and has skied with him a bunch, family with family also. (In my experience, it's more playful that way.)
The rep told me Franz turns heads on that ski all day, but he's using it to ski casually, recreationally, with family and friends, much as the OP intends to use his Stockli SXes.)
I notice on Head's website discussion of the two skis, they don't mention the difference between the plates, just the skis. In the past, I was often told that the only difference between the Pro and non-pro was that plate. Now not sure.
Still, the point here, to me, is that the lesser plate on the same or nearly the same ski can be the best choice for many, including Franz Klammer often, apparently.
To quote Head on the non-pro & Franz Klammer, backing up what the rep told me (and showed me on his iPhone):
- SPEED
- LEVEL
DESCRIPTION
The World Cup Rebels i.Speed is the little brother of the World Cup Rebels i.Speed Pro. It features a more forgiving construction with increased edge angles. Therefore, it turns more easily and is more forgiving of errors. Vibration is absorbed better. This gives you a smoother ride and you can launch wider turns. Because you use less energy, you can stay out on the piste all day long. As an advanced skier, you can really get the most out of this race ski. And when it comes to fine carving turns, the ski of choice for Franz Klammer is also your dream companion.
To me, this tends to confirm the OP's sort of plate choice for his Stocklis.
There's is no doubt that the choice of plate will impact the performance characteristics of the ski you put it on. It usually won't change it radically, but I have experienced some pretty remarkable improvements with some combinations.
I recently picked up the Stockli O Two skis from a few years back. This is a soft wide'ish SL ski with bamboo sidewalls and a faux leather top sheet. I mounted the Tyrolia Speedplate Plus on this ski, but instead of setting up the screws to permit the freeflex function, I mounted them to actually block that function and thus the plate stiffens the mid-section of the ski flex. This is a great plate option BTW.
I recently picked up the Stockli O Two skis from a few years back. This is a soft wide'ish SL ski with bamboo sidewalls and a faux leather top sheet. I mounted the Tyrolia Speedplate Plus on this ski, but instead of setting up the screws to permit the freeflex function, I mounted them to actually block that function and thus the plate stiffens the mid-section of the ski flex. This is a great plate option BTW.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,980
That looks like the old carving plates Head used to use.
This one below is off a Super Shape Magnum, the White/green one, 2nd version.
In 170, that ski was much too soft. Should've looked into the plate stiffening.
Yep, that's the plate (although without the green trim from the dampener in the mid-section). It's an all-plastic plate, but one of the better designs coming out of Head/Tyrolia over the years. If you use the official template jig, the oblong holes will have the screws positioned right in the middle of their range when the ski is not bent. However, there are 2 other options. The first is to position the screws all the way towards the middle of the ski. This will nullify the freeflexing nature of the plate and provide a stiffening effect (to a degree since the mid-section has some softer materials that will "squish"). If you position the screws in the oblong holes toward the tip and tail, then you will maximize the amount of range for the freeflex function AND reduce the amount of reverse flexing of the ski (when it rebounds). This can sometimes serve to "quiet" a ski that might be a bit too lively coming out of high energy turns. Of course this can only work with solid one-piece plates (or you could possibly find a way to permanently connect the halves).
That's pretty much all the experimenting I've done with the plates so far. I also like the fact that I can change the binding position or move bindings between skis without having a ton of concern. I've never had a binding pull out of a plate.
BTW - There's a side benefit of working with separate plates and not the integrated "system" plates like PowerRail, etc. I've recently been working on dialing in my final preferred binding delta across my entire quiver. In most cases you cannot shim the toe if you have a system plate that is integrated or has a design that prevents shimming the toe. I have determined that my current 2mm gas pedal on my boots works best with a 2mm binding delta. So this has required shimming or other alterations to get my skis to be at 2mm (or at least within 0.5mm). This effort has me swearing off using any binding that either doesn't have my chosen delta or cannot be easily modified to get there. This probably means more plates with race-type bindings in the future for me.
& with separate plates you can run GripWalk.
I’ve been using shims to avert boot out.
Thread Starter
TS
Just got these mounted and picked them up yesterday, but did not get a chance to get on them.
The SX came new from @dawgcatching during his end of season deals last spring.
Marker piston plate came via @Noodler from his stash of goodies.
Marker XCell 16 came from Corbetts in Oakville, ON for dirt cheap during their spring sales.
Skiis & Bikes in Collingwood, ON did the mount.
Even with everything at a good discount, this the most money I've ever spent on a ski, and I hope to keep it a long time. I had a well-used 2016 SX which convinced me to invest in a new SX as my Ontario icy & very hard snow ski , and for when I go to that ice-box Mt Tremblant. Thanks for the advice provided by everyone in this thread.
Cheers ~ Andy
The SX came new from @dawgcatching during his end of season deals last spring.
Marker piston plate came via @Noodler from his stash of goodies.
Marker XCell 16 came from Corbetts in Oakville, ON for dirt cheap during their spring sales.
Skiis & Bikes in Collingwood, ON did the mount.
Even with everything at a good discount, this the most money I've ever spent on a ski, and I hope to keep it a long time. I had a well-used 2016 SX which convinced me to invest in a new SX as my Ontario icy & very hard snow ski , and for when I go to that ice-box Mt Tremblant. Thanks for the advice provided by everyone in this thread.
Cheers ~ Andy
I should have asked last season. Where are you sourcing these lifter plates? I've been building my own. Not crazy difficult, but buying the real deal would be nice.
Just got these mounted and picked them up yesterday, but did not get a chance to get on them.
The SX came new from @dawgcatching during his end of season deals last spring.
Marker piston plate came via @Noodler from his stash of goodies.
Marker XCell 16 came from Corbetts in Oakville, ON for dirt cheap during their spring sales.
Skiis & Bikes in Collingwood, ON did the mount.
Even with everything at a good discount, this the most money I've ever spent on a ski, and I hope to keep it a long time. I had a well-used 2016 SX which convinced me to invest in a new SX as my Ontario icy & very hard snow ski , and for when I go to that ice-box Mt Tremblant. Thanks for the advice provided by everyone in this thread.
Cheers ~ Andy
Glad to see that the Piston plates found a great new home. That looks like an awesome setup. Have you skied them yet?
I hope you're not going to keep them for too long..........those are my next skis aren't they?
Let me know when you're going to try them out
I need to lift the toes on my Piston, you don't have ~5mm sitting by, do you by chance?
Sorry, the well runneth empty for the Marker plate stuff now.