ARL67

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I'm trying to assemble info & descriptions on plate systems for those of us wanting a more race-oriented setup.
Feel free to weigh in on the pros & cons on adding a plate system to a flat ski, your personal experiences, what works for you, etc.

My personal interest in a plate + binding setup is that I have a new set of flat Laser SX 170 on the way.
The usual demo-binding suspects, Attack & Warden & Griffon/Jester demos, are very large & chunky once mounted on a narrow ski. I was thinking of going with latest Tyrolia PRD MBS 12, which is a 2-piece demo binding with both independent heel & toe adjustments, and less visual bulk.
https://www.tyrolia.com/shop/us-CA/skibindings/powerrail/prd-12-mbs-3.html



However a couple Pugskiers chimed in that a ski like the Laser SX should have a race-type setup on it.
Researching online and chatting with some techs at the local ski shops, here are the common options from Look, Marker, Tyrolia. I have left out Vist for now. My main concern is flex and not overly stiffening the ski, nor adding excessive weight.


The 3 options I am considering for myself are:
1. Marker Piston Plate with Race XCell 16
2. Tyrolia/Head WCR 14 Plate with Freeflex EVO 16
3. Look R22 Plate with SPX 15 Rockerflex


Marker Piston Plate ( 14mm stand-height, weight ??? )
- this is a one-piece plate
- the screw holes to accept the binding are plastic ( please correct me if I'm wrong )
- 2 sets of screws secure the plate mid-foot, though the heel-side screws might offer some partial movement ?
- there is a centred single oblong screw at the toe that connects it to a toe "sub-plate"
- the toe "sub-plate" is secured to the ski by 2 sets of screws, and the piston-plate slides into it and is secured by the centred single screw in an oblong hole, pre above
- the heel has 1 set of screws in oblong holes, and another centred single screw in an oblong hole for free movement






Marker Race XCell 16 ( 6-16 DIN, 18mm stand-height, 2356 grams/pair )
- the XCell 16 has magnesium parts vs more plastic in the 12 DIN version
https://www.marker.net/en/201718/products/bindings/race/x-cell-160-221/x-cell-160-c1





Head/Tyrolia WCR 14 Plate ( 14mm stand-height, weight ??? )
- this is a one-piece plate
- the screw holes to accept the binding are plastic
- 1 set of screws secure it at the heel area
- 3 sets of screws are in oblong holes for free movement






Head/Tyrolia Freeflex EVO 16 ( 5-16 DIN, 17mm stand-height, 2690 grams/pair )
- the EVO 16 has the "Race Pro" heel vs the EVO 14's D-RX "Diagonal" heel
http://www.head.com/shop-us/us-CA/ski/rebelsclub/race-equipment/bindings/freeflex-evo-16-1.html




Look R22 ( stand-height ???, weight ??? )
- this is a one-piece plate
- the screw holes to accept the binding are metal
- 1 set of screws secure it at the heel area
- 3 sets of screws are in oblong holes for free movement




Look R21 ( stand-height ???, weight ??? )
- this is a 2-piece plate
- the screw holes that accept the binding are metal
- 1 set of screws secure it at the heel area, 2 sets of screws are in oblong holes for free movement
- 1 set of screws secure it at the toe area, 1 set of screws are in oblong holes for free movement




Look SPX 15 Rockerflex ( 7-15 DIN, 18mm stand-hright, 2850 grams/pair )
- the SPX 15 has a metal toe vs the 12 DIN which has more plastic
http://www.look-bindings.com/en-us/product/spx-15-rockerflex-blackicon




Feel free to chime in with any comments, experiences, corrections, additions.
I will update this first post to try and keep it correct & current.
 
Last edited:

Zrxman01

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You are definitely on the right track.
Out of the 6 pair of Stocklis I demoed this year the Laser SX and the consumer non FIS GS were my faves.
A precision ski like this deserves a precision coupling.
That means a high end race binding and plate.
Any of those three set up will suffice. I have owned similar versions to all you have listed and it really just comes down to personal preference.
I always felt like I stayed in the Tyrolia set ups better than recent Markers (our U-14 is in Tyrolias exclusively). While I like the Looks, I hate the extra effort it takes to get out of the heel piece.
IMHO go with the EVO 16 setup and enjoy a great ski!
 

Living Proof

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With apologies for I don't know how to link in anther Pugski post, use the search function and find "A race plate on a what?" thread which has an excellent discussion on this issue. In that thread, @HeluvaSkier describes his set-up which uses a Head/Tyrolia riser plate, I have the same set-up, and, would highly recommend on a performance ski. FWIW, I would not put a full length solid plate on a ski, as it would impact the flex, the Head/Tyrolia plate is two independent plates. Also, the Head/Tyrolia plate is not predrilled and accepts other bindings, although I would stick with Head/Tyrolia.

Perhaps a more knowledgeable Pugski use can link that thread.
 

James

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Well I despise my Rockerflex 15's for getting into. I didn't have that hard a time with Griffons.
Supposedly, the Marker plate has a flex adjustment inside.
 

Philpug

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I would be happy with any of those options on a Laser SX.
 

QueueCT

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I picked up a used Marker Piston Plate and Comp 1800 bindings from @ScotsSkier for my 177 SX. Happy with the setup and flex pattern of the ski. Honestly, I'm too scared to find the speed limit on them.
 

Dakine

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The marker setup is 10 mm rise with a 4mm shim supplied to get to 14mm.
They can be set up several ways for SL, GS, SG and DH.
They are typically not used for SL where a beefy aluminum plate is preferred.
I really like mine.
To me, the best thing about plates is how they reduce high frequency vibration which reduces fatigue.
 

James

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Blizzard and Volkl use Marker Piston plates on their slalom skis. Works very well for free skiing.
At what level do they go aluminum? The only one I know is VIST and they left yhe market for awhile. I've seen 20 point Fis sl skiers with the Marker piston.
 

Dakine

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James, much of the equipment used by world class athletes is not generally available.
Primoz, Swiss Tony and Heluva know more about this than I do so I don't want to get too far out.
That said, I have seen reference to solid 1/4" aluminum plates on slalom skis used at the highest level.
I have a pair of Kastle RX's that have a solid alu plate that I am told comes from Germany that is mighty stiff compared to the Marker plastic setup.
 

James

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Well not generally available is pretty useless. What can a person buy? I had an aluminum VIST slalom plate years ago. It was meant for flex.There were the Hangl plates Salomon used to use. Aliuminum platforms. Early 2000's.
Gone.

Some one off franken setup Bode or some 6'7" wcup racer would ski on matters not. Hirscher caused a stir a couple seasons ago by skiing on Marker plates.

OP is interested in flex, not ultimate beef.
What's happened to the Head carving plates of 10 yrs ago?
 
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ARL67

ARL67

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:thumb::thumb:
Well I despise my Rockerflex 15's for getting into. I didn't have that hard a time with Griffons.
Supposedly, the Marker plate has a flex adjustment inside.
I've heard that too about the Rockerflex, and I personally don't like getting into the Look Pivot heels either.
For me, I'm going to rule out the Look offerings.

I have also read here on the forum about the Marker Piston Plate have an adjustment for SL or GS use.

And regarding the Vist setup that Graham mentioned, how are the safety / release features of Vist ? I still view Vist as old-school, but exceptionally solid.
Head & Marker certainly expound on their latest tech in the toes & heels of the Head EVO 16 and Marker XCell 16, for retention and release characteristics.
Per James above, I'll take flex & safety over beef.

I am aware of a Head 2-piece plate/riser so I will research and add that to my first post above.

Here is the link to "A Race Plate on What ? " for further dialogue on the subject
https://www.pugski.com/threads/a-race-plate-on-a-what.8802/

When I started this thread, I felt that a picture is worth a thousand words and that there may be more recreational type skiers who might want some guidance from the Pugski Collective on options and general experiences. Thanks for the feedback so far. :thumb:
 
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ScotsSkier

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Well I despise my Rockerflex 15's for getting into. I didn't have that hard a time with Griffons.
Supposedly, the Marker plate has a flex adjustment inside.
Yes, the 15 heel requires a definite technique to get in, it never feels mechanically smooth, in fact the first pair ,I used I thought they were broken! The rockerflex 18 though has a different heel design, much more metal and is buttery smooth for entry/ exit. It is 14 ounces per ski Heavier though

For the OP the previous (?) Head Fischer plate is 2 piece and not predrilled socan take any binding ( I have an Atomic X19 on that plate on my monster 88s). The Fischer plate is the same mounting as the head but very slightly narrower.

You can’t really go wrong with the head (2 piece) or the marker set up. Note for the marker plate you use different mount points for slalom or GS set up.
 

Erik Timmerman

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The Markers stiffness varies depending on how many screws you use (some are optional for stiffening it) and what you do for washers in the elongated holes. You can put in elongated washers that lock up those holes.
 
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ARL67

ARL67

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^^^ that is great info from the 3 posters above !
I will read that Marker manual and read up in-depth on the Piston Plate mounting options / adjustment.
 
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ARL67

ARL67

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Is this the Head 2-piece plate being referred to above by ScotsSkier ?
If Yes, can this still be ordered new ? Good to know Yes/No but I want to focus on stuff that can be purchased New.
That is why I left off the Look R20 plate that was on something like the Dynastar Course Ti and could accept Look Pivots at the time.





Here is a Fischer that is blank / undrilled. Is this still orderable New ?
I don't see how this can be a secure connection to the ski and offer a free flex.

 
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Noodler

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If you decide to go with the Marker piston plates I have a set in “as new” condition available. PM me if interested.
 

ScotsSkier

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Is this the Head 2-piece plate being referred to above by ScotsSkier ?
If Yes, can this still be ordered new ? Good to know Yes/No but I want to focus on stuff that can be purchased New.
That is why I left off the Look R20 plate that was on something like the Dynastar Course Ti and could accept Look Pivots at the time.





Here is a Fischer that is blank / undrilled. Is this still orderable New ?
I don't see how this can be a secure connection to the ski and offer a free flex.


Yes, that is the 2 piece Head plate. Don’t know if they are available new at retail, I think they are, but if not there are new ones on sideline swap or I should have a new set here.
If you look at thefischer plate the 2 silver screws fit into a groove underneath which lets the plate flex. The head plate is the same except it also has an extra screw - the sliver one in the picture above- that also allows the plate to flex
 
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ARL67

ARL67

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Link to a bootleg copy of the Marker Technical Manual...
https://d3swkta9jjxguv.cloudfront.net/user_upload/marker/Downloads/THB_Marker_17-18_englisch.pdf
Look on page 67 for more than you want to know about mounting a current WC Piston Plate.
Yes ! Page 66-69 of the manual were very informative on how to adjust the mount for flex, based on the positions of the front plate, the number of screws used, the type of bushings used ( fixed or sliding ), and the position of the rear flex plate.

@Noodler, good to know you have a set if I go the Marker route, thanks

And thanks @ScotsSkier for clarification on the Head/Fischer 2-piece risers. ( I borrowed that pic from SideLine Swap )

I still wonder how the Head/Fischer 2-piece with not that many screws making contact with the ski
gives a better connection than a flat mount. Or do the advantages in stack height leverage make up for it ?
 
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