Taos Avalanche

[raisingarizona]

I still haven't skied Taos but I know of thier Ski Patrols reputation and it's held in the highest regard. Those rotten, upside down snow packs can be impossible to know exactly how they will behave. It is what it is.

 

[tball]

What I'd like to learn is what efforts Taos takes to mitigate the persistent, deep slab avalanches starting in the early season?

Aspen Highlands, for example, has an extensive boot packing program, as do other areas to various degrees. Arapahoe Basin, Telluride, Winter Park, Monarch, and Copper Mountain and maybe others use a Bosse Roller to disrupt and compact the deep layers starting in the early season.

What steps does Taos take to mitigate the persistent, deep slab avalanche threat?

What does the Forest Service consider "industry standard" mitigation of this threat?

What is the best practice?

I think these are reasonable questions to ask, and they should be answered so we can make informed decisions about where to ski.

 

[pais alto]

What I'd like to learn is what efforts Taos takes to mitigate the persistent, deep slab avalanches starting in the early season?

Aspen Highlands, for example, has an extensive boot packing program, as do other areas to various degrees. Arapahoe Basin, Telluride, Winter Park, Monarch, and Copper Mountain and maybe others use a Bosse Roller to disrupt and compact the deep layers starting in the early season.

What steps does Taos take to mitigate the persistent, deep slab avalanche threat?

What does the Forest Service consider "industry standard" mitigation of this threat?

What is the best practice?

I think these are reasonable questions to ask, and they should be answered so we can make informed decisions about where to ski.

You’ve already said that here. What did Taos say when you asked them?

 

[jmeb]

And the fact is -- while all those listed resorts do use Bosse rollers or boot packing, they still aren't immune to this. They only use those on a limited set of the terrain that could slide from a DPS.

So while Taos may well employ that in spots, it doesn't mean they did it on this terrain, that it is feasible to do on such terrain, or would've prevented this accident.

DPSs are the absolute worst. And there are few places more susceptible to them than NM snowpack on north facing slopes. It's an ultra-continental snowpack. If people want to ski places where there isn't a DPS risk, I recommend skiing in Tahoe, PNW, or at least Jackson or Big Sky. Stay away from steep, north facing terrain in CO.

 

[KingGrump]

I think these are reasonable questions to ask, and they should be answered so we can make informed decisions about where to ski.

TBH, don’t think you should worry about it though. You won’t like skiing Taos.

 

[James]

Even with boot packing, Highlands Bowl slides.

As I remember the story, years ago before boot packing, 80's? Lou Dawson of Wild Snow got buried in an avy in Highlands Bowl. He got lucky. At that moment, a guy was looking at his tracks in the Bowl with a telescope. He'd been heliskiing there the day before. He saw the avalanche and saw the burial, and informed patrol.
Otherwise, no one really knew he was there. Pretty sure it was Lou that it happened to but could be someone else.

 

[KingGrump]

I remember few seasons back, they were looking for volunteers for boot packing the various runs.
You get a day pass for boot packing about 4K of vertical.

Never done it myself. Looks like way too much work.

 

[tball]

You’ve already said that here. What did Taos say when you asked them?

I'd think the report would answer my questions if it were made available. I'm not going to bother asking the marketing department.

I was hoping for some Taos local knowledge. I'll walk into the patrol shack and ask if I make it down there this year and happily share what I find out.

If people want to ski places where there isn't a DPS risk, I recommend skiing in Tahoe, PNW, or at least Jackson or Big Sky. Stay away from steep, north facing terrain in CO.

Yeah, my life kinda revolves around skiing steep, north-facing terrain in CO. Thus my keen interest in the subject.

TBH, don’t think you should worry about it though. You won’t like skiing Taos.

Now, why in the world would you think I won't like skiing Taos?

 

[tball]

Even with boot packing, Highlands Bowl slides.

Of course, it slides following storms. Mostly controlled, sometimes not. I was caught in a little sluff in Highland Bowl a few years ago with a foot new. Just the new snow slid.

The key question is have there been any deep persistent slab avalanches in Highland Bowl since boot packing? I haven't heard of any.

 

[James]

Of course, it slides following storms. Mostly controlled, sometimes not. I was caught in a little sluff in Highland Bowl a few years ago with a foot new. Just the new snow slid.

The key question is have there been any deep persistent slab avalanches in Highland Bowl since boot packing? I haven't heard of any.

Well isn’t the more relevant question the history of slides on Kachina? It’s been skied for 60 years.

 

[KingGrump]

Now, why in the world would you think I won't like skiing Taos?

Trust me. I know.

 

[tball]

Trust me. I know.

Please, do tell.

 

[pais alto]

I'd think the report would answer my questions if it were made available. I'm not going to bother asking the marketing department.

I was hoping for some Taos local knowledge. I'll walk into the patrol shack and ask if I make it down there this year and happily share what I find out.

I’m guessing you didn’t try googling the TSV patrol’s phone number? Actually, I’m pretty sure you didn’t, so let me help.
https://www.skitaos.com/taos-ski-patrol

 

[KingGrump]

Please, do tell.

Gut feeling. Seldom wrong.

 

[Analisa]

If there's concern for personal safety in light of the Taos fatality, the question to ask is "what kind of beacon should I buy and what kind of helmet do I want to wear?"

Even as someone with a solid recreational knowledge of avalanches, I'm very likely not qualified to make any sort of judgment whether the report shows any sort of negligence. I'm not trained in forecasting, and can't read or interpret a snow profile chart, so I wouldn't be able to judge whether there was a red flag they missed. I know that DPS is particularly troublesome because of spacial variability. All avalanche issues have spacial variability as troublesome layers never lay down evenly, but DPS is even more complex because those deep layers then also heal very different rates depending on location, and likewise, their burial depth greatly varies. Even here in the PNW where risk is quick to rise, quick to fall, persistent weak layers tend to get mentioned in the forecasts for weeks, even when the overall avy ratings are green & yellow. They're low probability high risk, and the avalanche literature basically says these problems are incredibly hard to detect with standard tests. Patrollers clearly can't dig up the entire mountain for pit testing, but I can't speak to the amount of coverage that would've been considered comprehensive enough.

I'm not trained in mitigation. I can't tell you why resorts would choose a bootpack in one area, bomb another, ski cut a third, bosse roller, and ultimately close another. (I'm sure I'm vastly oversimplifying bombing - there's also plenty of decisions around the number, type, and placement). I don't know which mitigation steps work best for the different types of avalanche problems. I don't know when it's appropriate to rely on skier compaction. I don't know what criteria the resorts use to decide when it's safe for volunteers to bootpack and when they need only patrol on belay.

So here are my options:

1. Trust that patrol is looking out for me. Fatal inbound slides are rare, it's terrible for PR, likely impacts the visitor rate - it's just never good for business when customers die (morticians excluded). The patrollers face way more risk trying to keep me safe while trying to surgically navigate through dangerous terrain & working with explosives.

2. Given that risk cannot be completely mitigated, I can make my odds even better with resources like Recco, a beacon, helmet, spine protector, etc. I'm in this camp. I wear gear with Recco & my beacon gets a fair amount of inbounds use.

3. Spend at minimum a few weeks and ~$4k getting my AIARE Pro certs, and probably at least full season with a patrol team to know what's going on in the mountain. Because if you walk into a patrol shack and ask them what they did that morning, does it really matter what they say if you don't have the knowledge base to interpret & evaluate it?


I agree I was hoping for more answers and more info. I'd really like for there to be a villain in this story or a COE with some clear gaps in protocol that can be fixed so the same thing doesn't happen to another person and another family and, most selfishly, me. If you're looking for the report, FOIA tends to take ~30 days, depending on the department and the complexity of the request to provide their reporting, or journalists' ethics codes promote transparency, so it's sometimes quicker to reach out and see if they have any additional documents.

If anyone's curious about the work of the forecasting & snow safety teams, REI did a short feature on Laura Green, who did backcountry work for NWAC on Mt Hood and was the lead forecaster for Shredows last winter.

 

[jmeb]