Taos Avalanche

[RJS]

Is it legal to ski/board the Mine Slide slope in the image above? This article says that it's on private land, but even if you're skiing/boarding it with permission of the landowner, couldn't you be held liable if you cause an avalanche that injures/kills someone and/or damages property? It's one thing to cause an avalanche that injures/kills someone in backcountry terrain where all parties are aware of avalanche risk, it's another when the person injured/killed is simply in their home.

 

[Mike King]

Is it legal to ski/board the Mine Slide slope in the image above? This article says that it's on private land, but even if you're skiing/boarding it with permission of the landowner, couldn't you be held liable if you cause an avalanche that injures/kills someone and/or damages property? It's one thing to cause an avalanche that injures/kills someone in backcountry terrain where all parties are aware of avalanche risk, it's another when the person injured/killed is simply in their home.

Feel free to monitor the endless debate on the Bear Creek avalanche in this thread: https://www.pugski.com/threads/disc...ath-and-legal-responsibilities-therein.14965/

 

[pais alto]

Federal review says skier triggered deadly Taos slide

Forest Service regional Winter Sports Coordinator Adam LaDell said Monday that the agency’s review showed ski resort personnel complied with operating procedures, including detailed snow safety procedures that accompany each day’s decision on whether to open lifts and ski runs.

He said the procedures at Taos are in line with the industry’s current standards for best practices on snow safety.

“We didn’t find anything in our review, any red flags, anything they weren’t doing that’s in their permit,” LaDell said. “I’m very confident, where I’d go up and ride it and have no questions. Unfortunately things happen, very unfortunately.”

https://www.abqjournal.com/1340855/federal-review-says-skier-triggered-deadly-taos-slide.html

 

[Tricia]

Thanks Bob.

Federal review says skier triggered deadly Taos slide



https://www.abqjournal.com/1340855/federal-review-says-skier-triggered-deadly-taos-slide.html

From the AP feed:

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — A skier triggered an avalanche in January at a ski resort in northern New Mexico that led to his death and the death of another skier after they were overrun by snow, the U.S. Forest Service said in a written review obtained by The Associated Press on Monday.

Taos Ski Valley followed safety procedures under a federal land use permit in the days and weeks leading up to the Jan. 17 avalanche within ski area boundaries, the agency said in a five-page outline of its findings and conclusions.

The snow slide on expert ski terrain on the upper reaches of the valley temporarily buried 26-year-old Matthew Zonghetti of Massachusetts and 22-year-old Corey Borg-Massanari of Vail, Colorado. They died after being pulled out by rescuers from beneath about 7 feet (2 meters) of snow.

The Forest Service says it reviewed extensive records of avalanche prevention and control measures, from weather monitoring to the use of explosives that can dislodge unstable snow. The agency also interviewed personnel at Taos Ski Valley who responded to the snow slide.

Forest Service regional Winter Sports Coordinator Adam LaDell said Monday that the agency’s review showed ski resort personnel complied with operating procedures, including detailed snow safety procedures that accompany each day’s decision on whether to open lifts and ski runs.

He said the procedures at Taos are in line with the industry’s current standards for best practices on snow safety.

“We didn’t find anything in our review, any red flags, anything they weren’t doing that’s in their permit,” LaDell said. “I’m very confident, where I’d go up and ride it and have no questions. Unfortunately things happen, very unfortunately.”

A representative for Taos Ski Valley had no immediate comment on the Forest Service review. Results of an investigation commissioned by the resort into the cause of the avalanche were not available.

Taos Ski Valley has begun the process of installing an avalanche control system that allows detonations by remote control to cope with unstable snow, reducing hazards associated with handling traditional explosives. Planning for the system already was underway before January’s deadly avalanche, Forest Service and resort officials said.

The outline of the Forest Service review describes the breadth and deadly force of the snow slide that measured 150 feet across (50 meters) at the ridgeline cornice, and swept the length of a steep chute.

A member of the ski patrol witnessed the avalanche from the Kachina Peak ski lift and called emergency dispatchers. The skiers were located using probes — typically a lengthy pole that is poked through the snowpack — following indications in one instance from a specially trained avalanche rescue dog.

The Forest Service made one new procedural recommendation that annual signatures accompany the resort’s snow safety plan to ensure the document is continually reviewed to incorporate new technology. LaDell said the plan was up-to-date when the avalanche occurred.

 

[Brock Tice]

I am glad to hear that there was at least nothing grossly negligent per the forest service review. it's odd that it took this long for them to say something but at least it's out.

 

[raisingarizona]

I am glad to hear that there was at least nothing grossly negligent per the forest service review. it's odd that it took this long for them to say something but at least it's out.

You must not be very familiar with government procedures.

 

[Ken_R]

Where is the Forest Service Review? I want to read it.

 

[tball]

^^^ Yes, I want to read the report too. I couldn't find it with a little Googling. If any has a link, please post!

He said the procedures at Taos are in line with the industry’s current standards for best practices on snow safety.

Specifically, I want to know if Taos did any early season boot packing or compaction/disruption of the slope and if so, how much they did. And, what's considered best practice.

 

[KingGrump]

Damn, is it Monday again already?

 

[dbostedo]

Me too... no luck Googling. I assume the CAIC site will try to get it and update their entry too.

 

[tball]

Damn, is it Monday again already?

Yep. A little sunshine never hurt. Maybe there's something to learn from the tragedy? Where's the head stuck in the snow emoji?

 

[Analisa]

The report might be publicly published, but requestable under FOIA.

 

[KingGrump]

Yep. A little sunshine never hurt. Maybe there's something to learn from the tragedy? Where's the head stuck in the snow emoji?

Nah, just have better things to do in life. Like going to the Area 51 gathering.

 

[James]

Taos Ski Valley has begun the process of installing an avalanche control system that allows detonations by remote control to cope with unstable snow, reducing hazards associated with handling traditional explosives. Planning for the system already was underway before January’s deadly avalanche, Forest Service and resort officials said.

Are they putting in gas canons on Kachina?

Nah, just have better things to do in life. Like going to the Area 51 gathering.

Let us know if you come back with a special friend that can ski.

 

[dbostedo]

Are they putting in gas canons on Kachina?

Sounds like it.... Gazex was proposed back in 2016 : https://www.taosnews.com/stories/tsv-considers-new-avalanche-control-for-kachina-peak,23344

Let us know if you come back with a special friend that can ski.

Unfortunately, most aliens are snowboarders. That's why they're so alien to us.

 

[mdf]

Nah, just have better things to do in life. Life going to the Area 51 gathering.

But it's too flat to take advantage of the "Gathering Effect" powder days!

 

[KingGrump]

Let us know if you come back with a special friend that can ski.

I am sure I'll find one that skis. For sure, I'll bring him/her/it/??? to the Taos gathering. You can meet him/her/it/??? in person if you decide to show.

Unfortunately, most aliens are snowboarders. That's why they're so alien to us.

Let's not be so quick to judge. You only see the ones you want to see. Think MIB.

But it's too flat to take advantage of the "Gathering Effect" powder days!

Oh, there will be powder days there. Ain't see nothin' until you experience a powder sand storm.
Got to hit the sack. Totally wasted from the Naruto run training. My shoulders are killing me. Not to mention the bugs in the teeth bit. Whose stupid idea is to run like this anyway?

 

[dbostedo]

Totally wasted from the Naruto run training. My shoulders are killing me. Not to mention the bugs in the teeth bit. Whose stupid idea is to run like this anyway?

lololololololol... somehow, I can't see you doing that.

For anyone unfamiliar....

 

[KingGrump]

lololololololol... somehow, I can't see you doing that.

You’re right. You know me all too well.
That is definitely not me. I don’t go head first into anything. I am more towards “It’s dangerous. You go first. I'll watch”

The Area 51 Naruto run thing is a bone for the conspiracy theory guys that need something else to focus their lives on. I can guarantee you won’t find me in the Area 51 run. I know better.

Per the organizer of the run. It should be great fun. Yeah, right.

They said, “They can’t kill us all.” – I am thinking “Wanna bet.”

They said, ”If we do the Naruto run, we’ll be fast. We can out run their bullets.” Yeah, right. I am thinking you are dealing with the US Air Force, not the Army. They don’t bother to shoot you with a rifle. The got mini-guns and CBUs. Don’t take my word for it. Go talk to the dudes that served in the Iraqi army during Desert Storm.



Seriously speaking, Taos has some of the most professional and competent patrollers I have meet in my travels.
I’ve done end of day sweeps with them on many occasions over the years. They are all good folks.

Some of them have taken the avy deaths pretty hard. They all looked at their routines and procedures to see what went wrong. These guys are pros. I am not going to second guess them in their field of expertise. Especially, I know diddly squat when it comes to snow & avy. They have forgotten more about snow, avy, local and historical knowledge than I will ever know.

If they tell me it is safe to ski. I am going to ski it. It is a much more informed opinion than anything I can possibly come up with.
This not only apply to Taos but to any ski area in the US & Canada.

Trust me, I am not digging test pits on top of any of the resort runs I am going to hit. If others want to do that. Go right on ahead. It’s their prerogative.

I am also sure NFS has their own experts gone over this incident with a fine-tooth comb. I am certain their conclusions are impartial. They really don’t have a dog in the fight.
In terms of the lengthy time lapse between the incident and the release of the incident report, NTSB routinely take 6 to 9 months (or more) before completing an incident report. They can also just look up the hill and say “S**t Happens”. Doubt that satisfy most.

I know most folks like to subscribe to conspiracy theories. Usually incidents involving Mother Nature do not fit. She does not play by our rules. Sometimes, I swear she likes to laugh at us.

A little knowledge can be way dangerous. Just bring a couch and it can be Monday morning every run. But you won’t find me sitting in it.

 

[pais alto]

Seriously speaking, Taos has some of the most professional and competent patrollers I have meet in my travels.
I’ve done end of day sweeps with them on many occasions over the years. They are all good folks.

Some of them have taken the avy deaths pretty hard. They all looked at their routines and procedures to see what went wrong. These guys are pros. I am not going to second guess them in their field of expertise. Especially, I know diddly squat when it comes to snow & avy. They have forgotten more about snow, avy, local and historical knowledge than I will ever know.

If they tell me it is safe to ski. I am going to ski it. It is a much more informed opinion than anything I can possibly come up with.
This not only apply to Taos but to any ski area in the US & Canada.

Trust me, I am not digging test pits on top of any of the resort runs I am going to hit. If others want to do that. Go right on ahead. It’s their prerogative.

I am also sure NFS has their own experts gone over this incident with a fine-tooth comb. I am certain their conclusions are impartial. They really don’t have a dog in the fight.
In terms of the lengthy time lapse between the incident and the release of the incident report, NTSB routinely take 6 to 9 months (or more) before completing an incident report. They can also just look up the hill and say “S**t Happens”. Doubt that satisfy most.

I know most folks like to subscribe to conspiracy theories. Usually incidents involving Mother Nature do not fit. She does not play by our rules. Sometimes, I swear she likes to laugh at us.

A little knowledge can be way dangerous. Just bring a couch and it can be Monday morning every run. But you won’t find me sitting in it.

Well said.