Short turns drills and tips

[geepers]

What are your favourite / most effective drills and tips for steered short turns on black runs (single diamond, not ultra-steep)?

Hopefully something other than 200 spiess turns per day...

 

[Mendieta]

What are your favourite / most effective drills and tips for steered short turns on black runs (single diamond, not ultra-steep)?

Hopefully something other than 200 spiess turns per day...

Mmm ... Most of the places where I ski use mostly "black" for "not groomed", and double blacks are always "natural plus lots of challenges" (expert terrain, not for me). Not to mention that a Green in a place is a Black in another.

In my case, I am working on short turns in groomers and transferring to bumped up/natural terrain. I love a progression from side-slips to pivot turns. My hope is to loosen up my stiff upper body and get some decent separation But ultimately, the goal is to suck less in natural terrain, in my case. Cheers!

 

[JESinstr]

All about lower body rotary skills and invoking separation (at the hip sockets) that keeps the upper body solid, under control and facing direction of travel.

Three drills, Pole Drag, Pole Drag and.....Pole Drag.

If you are having trouble with separation and are willing to move down to a lesser slope to develop the lower body rotary and angulation skills, Do what JF is doing from 3:25 to 4:55 in the below. I am amazed how many "advanced" skiers have trouble doing this one.

 

[Yo Momma]

I stay on a Blue groomed slope and do turns, and pole plants in the snowmobile tracks down the side. Right pole plant in the right skeg line, Left pole plant in left, chest head and jckt zipper w/in the track indent. Upper body as still as I can. I do this w/ fwd lean, centered, and back a bit for variation. Quick skids, quick carves... all the variations w/in the track. Then try the same w/ one ski, then two pressuring your downhill ski, then switch it up and pressure primarily your uphill ski focusing on keeping a consistent cadence. My pole plants serve as my metronome. Nice for building a base of consistent turns....rinse, wash, repeat........... @7:46 in that vid^^^....... Impressive drill!!!!!!........ wait did he say do this after lunch????

 

[Wilhelmson]

Javelin but the easy version with the tip of the inside on the snow with the tail off the snow (no cross).

My friends advice is to just do lots of short turns, and them some more.

 

[Josh Matta]

just do them, do them first on easier terrain at first. Have nay 3rd person video of you skiing anything?

 

[Bad Bob]

Look for a grooming spine and ski it. It will give you an aid in turn initiation and getting a rhythm going. It is kind of like skiing bumps without the troughs. As you get more comfortable with them start tightening up the turns. When it starts feeling good drop the spine and go to a smooth groomer.
Just don't traverse.

 

[HardDaysNight]

This tip is so basic and fundamental that I’ll be sneered at for mentioning it. The large majority of skiers, including very many instructors, are beaten before they even begin because they haven’t learned to stand on their skis properly, their stance is terrible. Watch a WC slalom skier on YouTube and then get a friend to take a photo of you (just a photo, no video necessary). Compare. Note how you are standing upright with relatively little knee flex, compare the angle of your shins to that of the world cupper, note how much his ankles are closed relative to yours, and look where your hips are compared with his. This is a big reason why you can’t use your feet to tip your skis and why your legs don’t rotate properly, preventing you from creating the separation you yearn for. Instead you use your upper body to help the skis around and you can’t make yourself stop it. Straight legs don’t allow tipping or separation. Fix basics first!

 

[Josh Matta]

This tip is so basic and fundamental that I’ll be sneered at for mentioning it. The large majority of skiers, including very many instructors, are beaten before they even begin because they haven’t learned to stand on their skis properly, their stance is terrible. Watch a WC slalom skier on YouTube and then get a friend to take a photo of you (just a photo, no video necessary). Compare. Note how you are standing upright with relatively little knee flex, compare the angle of your shins to that of the world cupper, note how much his ankles are closed relative to yours, and look where your hips are compared with his. This is a big reason why you can’t use your feet to tip your skis and why your legs don’t rotate properly, preventing you from creating the separation you yearn for. Instead you use your upper body to help the skis around and you can’t make yourself stop it. Straight legs don’t allow tipping or separation. Fix basics first!

quoted for truth, if you are unable to stand on your outside ski figure out why that is and fix it.

 

[slowrider]

Schlopy drill

 

[Erik Timmerman]

How short is short?

Pivot slips - blend them into short turns.

Deep retraction turns. You need flex and extend for a reaching short turn.

Short swing it starts to feel like pressure management foot to foot is important.

 

[Sean]

I found this video helpful...

 

[Doby Man]

This will prob end up being a list of everybody's favorite drills, all of which contain a primary characteristic of fundamental movement that is as applicable to any turn type and terrain such as the short steered turn on steeps. Drills are really more about athletic fundamental skill development whereas turn type and terrain is more of a turn size rhythm and tactical edging concern. Because of this and that drills are so underused by those with the intention of improving anyway, choosing a drill that would specialize in a certain direction of dev is not very realistic, imo. Sort of like asking what is the best drill for skiing powder, which is … skiing powder and moguls? … skiing moguls and so on. The best and perhaps the only way to enhance the versatility in discipline and terrain of an expert is through continually striving towards a strict adherence of the most basic of fundamentals such as fore/aft and inside/outside pressure control and applying the movements that provide upper/lower separation in all three planes, (not just rotary). Whenever we see a WC racer, mogul or backcountry competitor screw up, it is almost always because they were either caught with pressure on the inside ski or in the back seat at the wrong time. Applying strong fundamentals to new terrain requires nothing more than the most simple of tactical adjustment and time spent in that environment. Choose your drills based on your weaknesses, not anything else, and that will be your fastest developmental approach to what ails you on any particular terrain. Any drill that is purported to specialize for a certain terrain and turn size will be a skill that is needed regardless.

 

[Andy Mink]

tip of the inside on the snow with the tail off the snow

Do be careful to not get the tail too high or the tip *may* stab into a soft patch of snow. Your MCL will will thank you.

 

[slowrider]

Been there. Inside shovel hooks right up. Still do the drill but with caution.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Keep the inside ski on the snow but make the pressure at the boot cuff that occurs when you raise the tail and tip into the turn.

Short radius turns are shorter/quicker versions of other round turns. It's the intensity that makes them short and quick.

The funnel, where you gradually decrease radius of turns with increasing intensity is a good drill.

 

[Fuller]

All about lower body rotary skills and invoking separation (at the hip sockets) that keeps the upper body solid, under control and facing direction of travel.

Three drills, Pole Drag, Pole Drag and.....Pole Drag.

If you are having trouble with separation and are willing to move down to a lesser slope to develop the lower body rotary and angulation skills, Do what JF is doing from 3:25 to 4:55 in the below. I am amazed how many "advanced" skiers have trouble doing this one.

I didn't see JFB do a pole drag drill but I never get tired of this video. As I am able to do more of the drills it makes more sense to me as I watch it again and again. Also it seems that one skill learned seems to enhance another. Keep working on your weakest links but don't be surprised when other things are magically improving. It won't happen for you if (In no particular order):

You are in the back seat.
Have a stance so wide that you can't move edge to edge.
Haven't figured out upper / lower body separation.
Your abrupt turn shape is detracting from the necessary flow.
Your boots don't fit.
And you won't sacrifice play time to get better.
You work hard on drills but you've been doing them wrong the whole time (guilty).

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Javelin but the easy version with the tip of the inside on the snow with the tail off the snow (no cross).

My friends advice is to just do lots of short turns, and them some more.

I'm not so sure that that is easier, it might seem easier in that the penalty for failure would be lower, but part of what makes the javelin easier is the crossing. Turning the hip so that the skis cross makes balancing on the outside ski easier and also is the whole point of the drill. I don't see how you could really be doing the drill without crossing at least a little. When I am teaching javelins to people that I am nervous about, I will ask them to just "hover" one tip over the other. That doesn't seem as scary. Once they have that, they can add more counter and cross the skis more. They might even start with a one footed hockey stop where they are skiing down the fall line on one ski while doing a double pole drag and then turn the stance ski under the lifted one. Hopefully the hips remain facing down the hill and they come to a stop in balance on the one ski.

 

[geepers]

Mmm ... Most of the places where I ski use mostly "black" for "not groomed", and double blacks are always "natural plus lots of challenges" (expert terrain, not for me). Not to mention that a Green in a place is a Black in another.

In my case, I am working on short turns in groomers and transferring to bumped up/natural terrain. I love a progression from side-slips to pivot turns. My hope is to loosen up my stiff upper body and get some decent separation But ultimately, the goal is to suck less in natural terrain, in my case. Cheers!

Here black means black (with one exception which is labeled black for other reasons). They winch cat groom some of the single blacks. The dbl blacks are allowed to grow wild. And they do.

in the snowmobile tracks

Snowmobile tracks?? 2 ft wide? Or do you mean snow cat tracks (15 feet wide)?

And, yes, Spiess after lunch? Talk about setting students up for excess.

How short is short?

The JFB vid (includes javelins) and funnels are good suggestions. Not sure re spiess - either before or after lunch.

 

[Yo Momma]

Snowmobile tracks?? 2 ft wide? Or do you mean snow cat tracks (15 feet wide)?

Yup huge difference... I mean the snowmobile tracks, or as we call them up here snowmachine LOL that the snowmakers, patrol and lifties use to get around during the ski day. Plant your poles in the track the runners (skegs/carbides) leave. That also teaches poling timing and consistency which is many times an underrated afterthought. That timing is setting up the metronome - which aspiring artists generally dislike as it places a microscope on our weaknesses.

I consider us artists, painting, making the music (the diff sound of our skis) of turns on diff types of snow. I can always hear when I screw up (OFTEN!!!), I can even tell before it happens. Some body part out of place, missed pole timing, tired leg, lack of separation.... etc....... endless list! It's just practice, practice until it becomes muscle memory and practice more!!!!!