Recco here, there and everywhere

[Tricia]

Could you use that system for, like, finding your stuff if you've misplaced it in your house or something?

That would be awesome for finding the pesky glove I'm missing.

 

[Prickly Jones]

Put one on every sock

 

[Monique]

There was something being sold a while ago with little round tags for your stuff ...

 

[pais alto]

Here's what I know about Reccos. The ski area where I work doesn't have the detectors, for various reasons and non-reasons. There are a few drawbacks. The detectors are somewhat difficult to train people to use. They don't provide distance readouts, you swing them back and forth and zero in by the beeper strength. Searchers have to remove the reflectors on their clothing and equipment, which is problematic because even some avy beacons by Ortovox now incorporate reflectors. The overall effectiveness for live recovery is rather limited - there's never been one in North America, but there have been some in Europe.

Further reading:
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/recco.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RECCO <-probably written by a Recco rep.

Interesting letter from Recco:
http://unofficialnetworks.com/2011/12/recco-rebuttal-gear-review-posted-unofficial-networks

I think they're better than nothing, but they aren't that good, certainly no replacement for beacons. There haven't been any burials since I started working at the ski area, but the patrol trains and will respond with beacons as well as other rescue gear. They train a lot on beacons.

 

[Monique]

They don't provide distance readouts, you swing them back and forth and zero in by the beeper strength.

Not disagreeing with you overall, but older beacons didn't have readouts either, did they? Also sound based. I assume that's a feature that's developed if there's enough demand for it.

(Maybe I'm wrong about the distance thing? I know they beeped.)

 

[cantunamunch]

They had lights in addition to sound, but frankly the (trained) ear and brain in tandem are much better at this sort of thing than readouts were.

 

[pais alto]

Not disagreeing with you overall, but older beacons didn't have readouts either, did they? Also sound based. I assume that's a feature that's developed if there's enough demand for it.

(Maybe I'm wrong about the distance thing? I know they beeped.)

I was about to write that all modern/non-obsolete beacons have distance readouts, which would be very close to correct. I will say that if you have a beacon that doesn't have a distance readout - like the Ortovox F1 or Pieps Freeride - it's time to seriously consider replacing it for a number of reasons like frequency drift, accuracy, bandwidth, and ease of use. beaconreviews.com has this to say about the Pieps Freeride (no readout model):

Pros: Inexpensive and tiny.

Cons: No direction indicator, short range, can't handle spikes, non-intuitive controls, dangerous.

And this to say about the Ortovox F1:

Pros: Long range, small. Excellent analog transceiver.

Cons: Many (e.g., no direction or distance indicator).

tl:dr version, unless you have them professionally checked and practice many, many times a year older beacons and the ones with no readouts should be retired.

 

[Monique]

I was about to write that all modern/non-obsolete beacons have distance readouts, which would be very close to correct. I will say that if you have a beacon that doesn't have a distance readout - like the Ortovox F1 or Pieps Freeride - it's time to seriously consider replacing it for a number of reasons like frequency drift, accuracy, bandwidth, and ease of use. beaconreviews.com has this to say about the Pieps Freeride (no readout model):

I personally have no experience with the older ones - I have a Pieps DSP something or other that I love. Super easy to use. It was on clearance at REI and I was able to apply some sort of coupon, so husband and I got 'em stupid cheap. It looks like this one: http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/specs_piepsdsp.asp

If we were ever so motivated, it also supports an alternate frequency to search for non-humans, which I have considered for my dogs - but they're not well behaved enough to take into avy territory thus far.

 

[cantunamunch]

should be retired.

Or buried in piles of leaves for practice

Word of Caution folks, this is turning into a Hardgoods thread.

 

[pais alto]

Or buried in piles of leaves for practice

Absolutely! They're great for practice searching.

 

[Monique]

Beacon parties in big yards: *thumbsup*

 

[tball]

Here's my little Recco tidbit: I lost my phone in Copper Bowl a couple years ago on a big powder day. I stopped by the patrol shack to see if anyone had turned it in. Nope, but the patrollers said to stop back after the control work was done and they might be able to pull out the Recco and try to find my phone as a training exercise.

Turns out there is some reflection off most (all?) electronics. It's not as good as the signal from a Recco reflector, but better than nothing and will potentially help find victims even without any Recco Reflectors. Pretty cool, as it might find someone inbounds who was stuck in a tree well or otherwise incapacitated before they turn into a popsicle.

I was super lucky and someone found my phone and turned it in a bit later, so no need for the Recco training search.

 

[Monique]

Unrelated to Recco, I lost one of my baskets in Copper Bowl a couple of seasons ago. I skied roughly the same line - and found it again. Crazy.

 

[crgildart]

Here's my little Recco tidbit: I lost my phone in Copper Bowl a couple years ago on a big powder day. I stopped by the patrol shack to see if anyone had turned it in. Nope, but the patrollers said to stop back after the control work was done and they might be able to pull out the Recco and try to find my phone as a training exercise.

Turns out there is some reflection off most (all?) electronics. It's not as good as the signal from a Recco reflector, but better than nothing and will potentially help find victims even without any Recco Reflectors. Pretty cool, as it might find someone inbounds who was stuck in a tree well or otherwise incapacitated before they turn into a popsicle.

I was super lucky and someone found my phone and turned it in a bit later, so no need for the Recco training search.

I found a phone right at the lift unload ramp a couple years ago and gave to to the liftee in the shack there.

I had a thought awhile back that it might be possible to build a smartphone app that mimics avy transceivers, even on the same frequency??? Make it part of the ski tracking app so when you turn that on you and your friends are all transmitting. Then, if someone goes missing everyone else could push the find button. Only problem would be the thousand other people on the mountain that also ran the same hugely popular new ski tracking and avy beacon app??? Since they mostly use the same frequency that is already a problem at a large resort though right? Someplace where beacons are required there would be noise from others skiing nearby with their theirs still set to ski not aware of the search. Would be worse with more skiers using it all over..

 

[cantunamunch]

I Only problem would be the thousand other people on the mountain that also ran the same hugely popular new ski tracking and avy beacon app???

You mean "Aside from the cost of building a separate 457kHz transceiver into every single 900MHz/1850MHz cell phone* and the cost of shifting airplane radio nav beacons and maritime mobile comms out of this band because it's about to be flooded with 19 billion civilian phone units, and the cost of selling the FCC on the idea as a good thing", of course.


*in orders of magnitude, this is like grafting a TV receiver into a far-IR thermal treatment unit.

 

[AmyPJ]

I have lost my car keys (you know, that key fob.) Does someone have a Recco sensor they can bring over to help me find them?

Wait, I'm going to be working at Snowbasin in a few weeks. Maybe I should call patrol.

 

[pais alto]

... I'm going to be working at Snowbasin in a few weeks...

Oh? Whatcha up to, if you don't mind saying?

 

[crgildart]

You mean "Aside from the cost of building a separate 457kHz transceiver into every single 900MHz/1850MHz cell phone* and the cost of shifting airplane radio nav beacons and maritime mobile comms out of this band because it's about to be flooded with 19 billion civilian phone units, and the cost of selling the FCC on the idea as a good thing", of course.


*in orders of magnitude, this is like grafting a TV receiver into a far-IR thermal treatment unit.

Umm, ya, when was the last time you (or anyone here) got on a plane or cruise with your skitrax app turned on?? How about with your beacon still on???

Any reason why there couldn't be an app operating on a frequency already native to most cell phones? At least everyone else with a cell phone and the app could switch to find if there were a way to filter out the noise from phones more than 5,000 feet from the lost person or phone.. Cell phones have already had 2-way radio apps. I'd think a beacon mode (when the ski app is on) that could be flipped to a find mode with arrows and distance would be doable.. if legal.

 

[AmyPJ]

Oh? Whatcha up to, if you don't mind saying?

I am going to be in guest services/guest experience. Meaning, my job is to make sure everyone is having a good time! I'll get to take people around the mountain among other things. I'm also apparently going to be in charge of the daily snow report at 5:30 a.m. daily. I guess that means no late nights out for me!

 

[pais alto]

I am going to be in guest services/guest experience. Meaning, my job is to make sure everyone is having a good time! I'll get to take people around the mountain among other things. I'm also apparently going to be in charge of the daily snow report at 5:30 a.m. daily. I guess that means no late nights out for me!

Very cool. Except for the no late nights, I guess.