Recco here, there and everywhere

[Tricia]

Recently I had a customer come in to the store asking for a ski outfit that has Recco™. I have a habit of selling the customer what they want, so I showed him the pieces in stock with the technology, which was a fair amount of product.

Someone I respect who has been a patroller had some interesting thoughts on Recco™ and likened it to having a milk bone in your pocket so the avy dog will find you.

Think about it....
Helmets have Recco™. Ski clothing has Recco™. Gloves and mittens have Recco™. Some ski boots, even have it.
The question is, if someone is in an avalanche without an actual beacon but they have gear with Recco™ as the only thing to locate the person, considering that everyone in the vicinity of the avalanche will likely be wearing something, or many things that also have Recco™. How does it work?
Is there a way that the system differentiates one Recco™ from another?

 

[hbear]

Not sure how true but I remember an article long ago saying recco was a pain given the search party had it on their gear as well....unlike a transponder that can be changed to receive when a search is on (to minimize false signals from the people above snow) recco is passive and always there.

That being said, I also read that while better than nothing it's value is limited. (E.g. If avy is a concern one should be focused on transponder rather than recco.)

Perhaps the patrols or avy experts can chime in.

 

[SBrown]

Pretty sure it's mostly a body recovery tool. I think there have been a couple of live retrievals, but not many. That said, I guess it's better than having to wait until the melt....

 

[Spooky]

It works with that magic stuff called science!

I haven't done a rescue with recco (2 successful transceiver searchers though), but I have played with it and it is purely directional. The only people you are looking for are in the snow, so imagine you point it there and you're good to go. I wonder if the size of your grid search changes though? Anybody have actual training?

 

[fatbob]

I've seen avy searches in Europe ( big slides where it is unclear anyone is buried) where they will run it from a heli. Mind you they are also using thermal imaging.

I regard it as a bit of a hail Mary - think I have one built into a back protector but I've also heard a slab of metal such as a phone does as good a job of reflecting the Recco signal. This might be BS of course.

 

[Prickly Jones]

Least your friends get your gear this way.

 

[cantunamunch]

It's a harmonic distortion reflector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Even_and_odd_functions#Harmonics


Build your own for less than $1, take a germanium diode like an AA 119
http://www.rf-microwave.com/en/shop/0/444-germanium-silicon-diodes/4921-AA119.html

and solder 3.25" of wire on either side.

 

[Dave Marshak]

It's a harmonic distortion reflector. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Even_and_odd_functions#Harmonics


Build your own for less than $1, take a germanium diode like an AA 119
http://www.rf-microwave.com/en/shop/0/444-germanium-silicon-diodes/4921-AA119.html

and solder 3.25" of wire on either side.

I'm not surprised the reflectors are cheap. That makes for a system that can be widely distributed with some room for the builders to make some money. You can't make your own unless you know the harmonics the receivers are looking for, so that's good for the the bulders too

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm not surprised the reflectors are cheap. That makes for a system that can be widely distributed with some room for the builders to make some money.

Yup.

You can't make your own unless you know the harmonics the receivers are looking for, so that's good for the the bulders too

*shrug* I think that's more a question of purchaser convenience - skiers are willing to spend money - and features (having the antenna woven into the fabric).

Any crystal-radio building kid or underfunded insect-tracking scientist*/antipoaching agent can look up the FCC exemption
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-15-1457A1.pdf
and figure out that he/she needs a 16cm dipole and a moderately sensitive germanium or Schottky diode.

(and in fact many many have done just this - and published research papers)

 

[cantunamunch]

BTW, since no one has linked it yet, I will:

http://www.alpine-rescue.org/ikar-cisa/documents/2014/ikar20141205001421.pdf

 

[DanoT]

I have no experience with Recco but many decades ago I was involved in a search and body recovery of a tree well victim using a police dog. We hiked up hill to within about 150' of the suspected tree and then the RCMP dog handler instructed us to stop and remain where we were so as not to have our scent confuse the dog. He then released the dog who went in a bee line to the buried body and began digging.

So if you replace the dog with a Recco receiving device, pointed away from the rescuers, it should work.

 

[crgildart]

How do you know a piece of gear has it? I have a closet full of jackets from pretty old to 2015-16 season new still with tags hanging and a couple of onesies from the late 90s early 00s. Is there a particular place it would be located to identify a jacket or pants as having it after the hang tags are gone?

 

[neonorchid]

^ everything of mine has some type of graphic, and it is a sizeable capsule easy to feel and distinguish from a seam.

 

[crgildart]

^ everything of mine has some type of graphic, and it is a sizeable capsule easy to feel and distinguish from a seam.

What's it look like? Can't be that big if they have it on gloves right??

 

[DanoT]

What's it look like? Can't be that big if they have it on gloves right??

Isn't there just a tag that says Recco somewhere on the clothing?

 

[AmyPJ]

Funny, I've wondered this exact question myself. If everyone out there has it on their person, how do you know if you are looking for the right "Recco"? I might have to invest in a beacon this winter.

 

[neonorchid]

What's it look like? Can't be that big if they have it on gloves right??

Isn't there just a tag that says Recco somewhere on the clothing?

 

[Monique]

Basically the size of the smallest traditional-shape band-aid.

@AmyPJ - wearing a beacon is a great idea. I would consider Recco more of a marketing thing for all the reasons already mentioned.

 

[Prickly Jones]

Could you use that system for, like, finding your stuff if you've misplaced it in your house or something?

 

[Tricia]

View attachment 14717 View attachment 14718 View attachment 14719 View attachment 14720

What's it look like? Can't be that big if they have it on gloves right??

I was going to take some pictures but neon orchid beat me to it.
I'll take pics of tags on stuff with it at work today.