Rate the Turns 2

karlo

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@Deadslow is onto something,


Others have shown a much better eye than mine. To me, all his turns are 10’s. Not so my turns. Here are two videos of my short turns, done one right after another at Telluride’s “Video Arena”. Aside from the improvements I can make, here’s an additional challenge. What change, aside from shortness of turns, do you think I made between the two videos?

Short Turns 1

Short Turns 2
 
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karlo

karlo

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I want to know more about this...
Go here,

“Ski-School Video Arena
Our On Mountain Location Just Above Gorrono Midlodge on Chair #4”

Not sure if you can have videos done without an instructor. Don’t see why not. At the bottom of the run, there’s a hut in which you can view the videos. We “bought” four clips, two of me, two of my daughter, for $50
 

Tony Storaro

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A-shape/ frame is something you should work on methinks...and something is off with the timing, cant put my finger on it tho...
 
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Erik Timmerman

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OK well, as someone said above, it is all very A-framey. Funny how the preview clip on vid 1 looks worse than anything you really see in the video. I guess when you open up the turn you just aren't pushing so hard on the outside ski. It seems unfair to call those turns tail push, but they kinda are. I'd like to see you balancing on that outside ski more. While you do a pretty good job of keeping the zipper facing the bottom of the hill. In the still from the second video you can see that you aren't really using a "combination of inclination and angulation to direct pressure toward the outside ski".
 

LiquidFeet

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Extension turns video #1.
----You are very light between turns, then you pounce at apex.

Flexion turns video #2.
----You stay solidly on the snow between turns.
----No pounce; flow is smoother; pressure is more evenly distributed through the turn.
----There's still a bit of an extension, but I think it's unintended.
 

Mike King

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@karlo, this is pretty good skiing. You are moving toward getting performance from the skis that will be necessary to pass Level 3.

Here's the difference between the two clips. In the second clip, you are waiting to apply rotary until after the new edge is established. In the first clip, the entire top of the turn is cut off with a quick pivot and strong rotary applied at edge change. The result is that the edge is never established in the top of the turn, and the ski is not bent until after the fall line, when all of the pressure hits in the bottom, finish, of the turn.

The second clip is better, but still not where it needs to be to obtain the performance you seek. You need to exercise more patience in the initiation of the turn, allowing the edge to be established and waiting to apply rotary to the skis. While the turns are better, the rotary is still applied rapidly and with great intensity in the end of the initiation phase and beginning of the shaping phase of the turn.

Here's what I'd suggest you try -- something we did in Cert 3 training yesterday. Try to feel all four edges at edge change, then see if you can traverse on the new edges for a bit prior to steering the skis. No, you will not be able to actually accomplish the task, but the exercise, if properly conducted, will establish a edge that accepts the pressure and allows the ski the bend early in the turn. The result should spread the pressure more evenly through the turn...

Mike
 

Chris V.

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This is meant to be only descriptive, not judgmental. Watch both clips in slow motion. In each clip, you consistently start tipping the new outside ski before the new inside ski. Sometimes a slight stemming accompanies this. The second clip still shows strong new outside leg extensions. Some of the replies have called these flexion turns, but I wouldn't call them that.
 
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karlo

karlo

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something is off
Yup

You look more forward in the second set.
This answer comes closest to what I changed between the two runs. In the first run, I had forgotten to tighten the top buckles of my left boot. I fixed that for the second run.

Funny how the preview clip on vid 1 looks worse than anything you really see in the video. I guess when you open up the turn you just aren't pushing so hard on the outside ski. It seems unfair to call those turns tail push, but they kinda are.
My first run was an attempt at doing Reilly McGlashan’s “Classic Short Swing” turn as described and demonstrated in Projected Production’s “Legacy Part 1”
Extension turns video #1.
Edge set is late, following a swing at the top of the turn created by bringing the feet forward. The latter part, I really tried to exaggerate that, to feel what McGlashan was talking about.

In the second clip, you are waiting to apply rotary until after the new edge is established. In the first clip, the entire top of the turn is cut off with a quick pivot and strong rotary applied at edge change.
Yes. In the second run, I was doing the turn I’ve been doing to mobilize and stretch a bum left hip. I try to make a short turn very slowly, intentfully rotating, feeling the mobility and range of rotation in my left glutes and rotators.

Watch both clips in slow motion
How to with my YouTube app. On a computer, I can set a slower speed. I can’t figure out how on a phone
 

LiquidFeet

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....My first run was an attempt at doing Reilly McGlashan’s “Classic Short Swing” turn as described and demonstrated in Projected Production’s “Legacy Part 1”

Edge set is late, following a swing at the top of the turn created by bringing the feet forward. The latter part, I really tried to exaggerate that, to feel what McGlashan was talking about.
....
@karlo, would you link a video of Reilly doing the turns you were admiring and trying to do? If you can't do something from the Projected Production video, I bet you can find similar turns done by him on youtube. He's got stuff posted there.
 

Skisailor

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Hi Karlo - what’s different is the pole touch timing. In video 1 you touch at edge set - as required in a short swing turn. In video 2 you use a short radius turn pole touch.

You would agree that these are all extension turns in both videos. Right? You have a little pop at the start of every turn - extension of both legs.
 

Chris V.

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How to with my YouTube app. On a computer, I can set a slower speed. I can’t figure out how on a phone
Click title of video in this thread to open it in the YouTube app. Expand to full screen. Click the three dots in the upper right to get a pulldown menu. Choose playback speed.
 

Steve

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Search for how to download YouTube videos. Once you download one you can open it in another player with more control options. There's plenty of sites that do this for you for free.
 

Henry

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Look at the first video at 8 seconds. You're a-framed and wedged. Why? What movements are you trying to make, and what are you actually doing? If you're not undercanted then you're trying to edge with you knees and it isn't working. At this point in that turn your left ski should be almost off the snow, just very lightly skimming, not supporting you while you start the turn with your right.
 
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karlo

karlo

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@karlo, would you link a video of Reilly doing the turns you were admiring and trying to do? If you can't do something from the Projected Production video, I bet you can find similar turns done by him on youtube. He's got stuff posted there.
The closest I came up with to the Classic Short Swing is at about 0:18 here,
In "Legacy Part 1", there is much more extension apparent in video taken from below. It is described as a more brushed turn, with later edge set, leaving a (pretty broad) quarter moon shape track. It's only $6.99 American dollars to access all their videos for one month. Have some time on your hands the next few weeks or so? :)

Classic Short Swing.jpg


Hi Karlo - what’s different is the pole touch timing. In video 1 you touch at edge set - as required in a short swing turn. In video 2 you use a short radius turn pole touch.

You would agree that these are all extension turns in both videos. Right? You have a little pop at the start of every turn - extension of both legs.
I don't know about the pole touch. I slowed down Turns 1 (using PC, not smartphone) to 0.25 and compared to Turns 2 slowed to 0.5. Seems to me pole touch happens about the same time. But, my eye is not the most discerning. Yes, turns in both videos are extension turns. For flexion short turns, I would want different gear and different conditions.
 
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karlo

karlo

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Look at the first video at 8 seconds. You're a-framed and wedged. Why? What movements are you trying to make, and what are you actually doing? If you're not undercanted then you're trying to edge with you knees and it isn't working. At this point in that turn your left ski should be almost off the snow, just very lightly skimming, not supporting you while you start the turn with your right.
It appears to me the wedge resulted from this, at exit of the previous turn,
Wedged 1.jpg


Wedged 2.jpg


I am untipping the old inside ski much earlier than my old outside ski, resulting in the new outside ski tipped onto edge much earlier than the new inside ski. Why I am doing that, what happened, I don't know. I don't think it appears in all turns. But, yeah, why did I, exiting the previous turn, untip so assymetrically? I don't know.

"At this point in that turn your left ski should be almost off the snow,"
I had been told that I have a habit of picking up my new inside ski when entering a turn. I was intentfully trying not to do that. So, perhaps I over did it? Still, I don't know why the above asymmetry.
 

Nancy Hummel

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It appears to me the wedge resulted from this, at exit of the previous turn,
View attachment 96813

View attachment 96814

I am untipping the old inside ski much earlier than my old outside ski, resulting in the new outside ski tipped onto edge much earlier than the new inside ski. Why I am doing that, what happened, I don't know. I don't think it appears in all turns. But, yeah, why did I, exiting the previous turn, untip so assymetrically? I don't know.

"At this point in that turn your left ski should be almost off the snow,"
I had been told that I have a habit of picking up my new inside ski when entering a turn. I was intentfully trying not to do that. So, perhaps I over did it? Still, I don't know why the above asymmetry.
I think you are in too much of a hurry. Slow the turns down. Think about tipping the right ski first to go right or left ski first to go left. Think about flattening old outside ski first.

Practice traverses -letting skis go flat before adding tipping or leg rotation.
 
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