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Please help me learn from the video

asolo

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This seems a really friendly site and forum, so I'll take the risk :)

Here's a video of me doing some short-ish turns:
I am on ultra light BC skis (Movement Session X). The snow underfoot is somewhat hard, so I am not able to get solid edges. This is a pitch that was just freed up by some youth racers at Winter Park (can hear it in background). My left side is weaker and I can see some serious A-frame, I think it does get better when I can get an edge grip on softer stuff. I can't get a whole lot of pressure on these skis, since they start to slide-chatter and Dynafits tend to pre-release :)

All this said, tips would be appreciated! Thank you!
 

Josh Matta

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the a frame isn't your skills its your alignment. There is no way around fixxing that with out canting under your dynafit.

In fact its the single biggest issue I see in this skiing, and most of the other problem would probably go away with proper alignment,
 

Josh Matta

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i do have question for you, do you push on your outside ski or do you stand on?
 

James

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Yeah there's good skiing there but it's hard to separate what's due to skiing ultralight bc skis. Plus the alignment issue. The biggest thing I see is the turn starts with going straight up then sinking down and seemingly pushing the skis out. How much of that is due to having little trust in the ski turning/holding an edge is hard to tell. Also, do you feel it's necessary to always push on the front of the boot?
 

Mike King

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To build on @Josh Matta’s comment, you create edge by pushing your skis away from you until you achieve sufficient edge angle that the ski bites and deflects. A more efficient method is to tip the skis by rolling the ankles and tipping the lower leg. Tippping creates early edge and creates a platform to accept the pressure that builds in the turn. It causes the ski to bend early in the turn. As a result, the snow moves over the length of the ski rather than across the width.

It will take a fair amount of work to learn a new movement pattern. What’s your willingness to invest the time to do so?
 

geepers

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What I see is that you are in a hurry to get into the new turn without proper engagement and balancing over the outside ski. It goes very quickly from transition to the outside ski tail pushed out and sideways as a means of speed control.

Asolo1.jpg

Asolo2.jpg


It's hard to get a frame in between transition and the latter position which indicates that the ski is not going smoothly through an arc.

May be better to slow this down and do some slower, wider radius turns. Lift the heel of the inside ski off the snow. Keep the tip of that ski and your poles on the ground. Do these at low speed on a gentle slope and the aim is to control your balance over the outside ski - it has to be on the outside ski otherwise you won't be able to lift the inside heel - and take the time to steer the ski through a smooth arc both above and below the fall line.

This is a less demanding version of the javelin turn drill as demonstrated by JFB here. at 4:55

We've just spent a large part of the day doing drills like these for short turns.
 
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asolo

asolo

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Yeah there's good skiing there but it's hard to separate what's due to skiing ultralight bc skis. Plus the alignment issue. The biggest thing I see is the turn starts with going straight up then sinking down and seemingly pushing the skis out. How much of that is due to having little trust in the ski turning/holding an edge is hard to tell. Also, do you feel it's necessary to always push on the front of the boot?

Yes, indeed, I am standing on my toes most of the time and pressing on them all I could. That day, I was going about it in two ways: pulling up tails (almost dolphins) or pushing toes forward (kind of like mogul skiers seem to do). This is to keep tips connected to snow at all times to control speed. Not sure what I was doing there.
 
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asolo

asolo

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i do have question for you, do you push on your outside ski or do you stand on?

Hmm. Not sure honestly, I guess, I push, especially as the pitch gets steeper. Just standing does not work for me on this harder snow.
 

Dwight

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@asolo, based on your boot fitting thread, did you find a good boot fitter or are you still trying to fit yourself?
 
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asolo

asolo

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To build on @Josh Matta’s comment, you create edge by pushing your skis away from you until you achieve sufficient edge angle that the ski bites and deflects. A more efficient method is to tip the skis by rolling the ankles and tipping the lower leg. Tippping creates early edge and creates a platform to accept the pressure that builds in the turn. It causes the ski to bend early in the turn. As a result, the snow moves over the length of the ski rather than across the width.

It will take a fair amount of work to learn a new movement pattern. What’s your willingness to invest the time to do so?

Hey, this was day 27 this season, and many of those days 9am to 4:05pm, so yes, there is a lot of persistence :)
 
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asolo

asolo

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@asolo, based on your boot fitting thread, did you find a good boot fitter or are you still trying to fit yourself?

I am planning to stop by bootfitter this week to check the alignment and stance. Got 4-5 days in these new boots before going in, in order to answer questions more intelligently. This said, I think it's not the gear, but the skier that is the problem here :) Thanks for thinking otherwise, though :)
 
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asolo

asolo

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What I see is that you are in a hurry to get into the new turn without proper engagement and balancing over the outside ski. It goes very quickly from transition to the outside ski tail pushed out and sideways as a means of speed control.

Completely confirms my own assessment: too quick to rotate skis in the upper part of the turn, etc. Been working on this. I did get a bit better (comparing with some past footage), but still long ways to go.
 

RuleMiHa

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I am planning to stop by bootfitter this week to check the alignment and stance. Got 4-5 days in these new boots before going in, in order to answer questions more intelligently. This said, I think it's not the gear, but the skier that is the problem here :) Thanks for thinking otherwise, though :)
Your alignment looks really wonky to me. It's good to take responsibility, and be willing to do the work but you don't want to be 'running east looking for a sunset'.
 

Josh Matta

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I could enact change with shims in 15 minutes. You can’t get rid of the a frame on that left leg with out under binding canting.
 

Josh Matta

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So to the op could you a frame less by holding your left knee out from center further?
 

geepers

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Yes, indeed, I am standing on my toes most of the time and pressing on them all I could. That day, I was going about it in two ways: pulling up tails (almost dolphins) or pushing toes forward (kind of like mogul skiers seem to do). This is to keep tips connected to snow at all times to control speed. Not sure what I was doing there.

There's a need to get off the tips as the turn progresses. Otherwise your CoG will be somewhere forward of the toe of your binding and below the fall line you'll start to rotate the skis around that point rather than grip. As you see here around the left turn at 37 secs.
Asolo3.jpg

There are other reason for that but the very flexed outside ankle is an indicator of being too forward at that point.

Completely confirms my own assessment: too quick to rotate skis in the upper part of the turn, etc. Been working on this. I did get a bit better (comparing with some past footage), but still long ways to go.

Heard it described recently as 1-3 skiing. The bit in the middle -2- is missing. 1-2-3. That's not seconds - it's stages and the middle that shouldn't be missed.

Watch Josh here at 0:55 - he's doing quick enough shorts but the turns still have shape at the top. Note what he says about where to stand on the skis.

 

Doby Man

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I don’t think it is correct that an A frame is ever automatically a boot alignment issue until an on snow analysis has been made. That said, first and foremost, the A frame is an “alternating” pattern. In other words, only one side at a time, the inside ski, is negatively affected. Ther OP obviously has no problem tipping and pressuring his outside ski which is 90% of the goal of a good turn. Bad boot alignment would significantly hamper such an achievement. Secondly, because it is his alternating inside ski that shows the affected leg, what that means is he is not rotating both femurs equally, and, as a result, is not tipping both skis equally, something that will produce an A frame regardless of boot alignment. Lastly, Boot alignment analysis can only be assessed from specifically straight running a flat ski with both a natural stance vs a stance that leaves equally “flat” tracks. If his natural stance leaves flat tracks, he has no alignment issues. Therefore, it is my opinion that one of two main issues the OP is having the A framing specifically due to not matching femur rotation and subsequent equal ski tipping. That inside ski is only pretending to carve and is not contributing to the carving effort. That can easily be corrected over time with inside ski and one ski drills. While we always want outside pressure dominance, we want synchronized feet and skis.

he second issue (with the OP) is the vertical motion or “pop” in the turn. The OP is getting his timing from this pop which is why it is so deeply ingrained. This timing mechanism can be transferred to the feet and ankles, the start of the kinetic chain and at the skis where real flow is produced (not from flapping/swinging arms, noisey pole plants, bouncing at the waist, a bobbing head, nowhere above the waist or whatever may be someone’s particular issue). This vertical motion needs to be suppressed by flexing through the turn rather than extending to release, the “pushing” that has been mentioned. When we suppress our vertical motion for carved turns, we are rewarded with more lateral mobility to use for more lateral displacement of the BoS from the Com thus obtaining higher tipping, tighter turn frequencies, higher degree of turn for turn shape speed control and generating more power from the ski. The tuck turn drill is a good drill for suppressing vertical motion and finding more active feet and ankles.

It is my opinion that the OP is not carving smooth arcs and is skidding because of the above two fundamental issues of technique and not because of boot alignment or equipment choices. With the movements he demonstrates, he would get the same results with perfectly aligned boots and well tuned SL skis. Skiing with a strong two footed tipping platform with ample flexion and tension from both the feet and ankles with loose and supple hips and knees under a lower riding CoM are the goals I would apply to this skiing.
 

geepers

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@Josh Matta

Is it similar on the other side? (Although it is asymmetric.)

Asolo4.jpg


Maybe not as apparent with the camera/slope angle...?
 

Josh Matta

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could be camera but its knockneed both side but more so on left side.
 
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asolo

asolo

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he second issue (with the OP) is the vertical motion or “pop” in the turn. The OP is getting his timing from this pop which is why it is so deeply ingrained. This timing mechanism can be transferred to the feet and ankles, the start of the kinetic chain and at the skis where real flow is produced (not from flapping/swinging arms, noisey pole plants, bouncing at the waist, a bobbing head, nowhere above the waist or whatever may be someone’s particular issue). This vertical motion needs to be suppressed by flexing through the turn rather than extending to release, the “pushing” that has been mentioned. When we suppress our vertical motion for carved turns, we are rewarded with more lateral mobility to use for more lateral displacement of the BoS from the Com thus obtaining higher tipping, tighter turn frequencies, higher degree of turn for turn shape speed control and generating more power from the ski. The tuck turn drill is a good drill for suppressing vertical motion and finding more active feet and ankles.

Thanks for analysis! I completely agree about extending (popping up) too high to unload and swing the skis. In fact, I had noticed this and worked on it and was able to achieve a smooth and level carving short turn but... only on softer snow. With the conditions at WP on Sunday, any of my attempts at a longer carving turn or a smooth short turn only accomplished my losing edges (for which I have a nice bruise on the hip to show).

I think the inner ski being out of alignment may have been a function of trying to not wipe out should the outer ski lose the edge. Hard to tell at this point.

P.S. Edges were tuned a day ago.
 

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