New Mac Laptop...Macbook Pro or Air...Go!

[Living Proof]

I visited a local Apple retailer today to check out the new MacBook Air and the 12' Macbook.

While I am not a Mac user, it's a little awkward navigating around the keyboard using the touchpad. After a few minutes and some coaching, I must say that I am impressed with the new MBA. The Retina Display looks great, the keyboard was not an issue at all in getting used, and, the overall size is close to perfect for my typical on-my- lap while sitting in a comfy chair. Only one USB c port, so a dongle would be needed, a common knock in the reviews.

I tested the 12' macbook because there is a killer deal on a 5 month old '17 macbook with I7 processer, still under warranty, from a local seller. I was concerned about the keyboard size being too small, but, actually using it took that issue off the table. I do like the smaller size and the ease of portability. Not sure if I would be happy with the smaller size/screen size over the long run, but, my needs are simple.

I am curious about how Mac users deal with the MS Word and Excel documents commonly used. I know that MS office is available for a yearly fee that cheap me does not want to pay. Also, is it an issue to transfer ownership/registration if buying a used Mac?

Briefly, I did look at the new Macbook Pro, my take is that it would be a waste of $100 for that upgrade, although there are more ports to connect other devices eliminating the need for a dongle.

My target all-in price is $1k, there are some good deals on the '17 MBP's from local sellers that easily get under that price. Yeah, and in the back of my mind, is the killer deal above on the old MBA during the upcoming Black Friday weekend. And, just to add to the potential buys, my Iphone 5s needs to be replaced as it has issues at my vacation home. Target is offering a $150 gift card over Black Friday weekend, that is the bet deal I've come across to-date.

Bank account will take a hit this month!

 

[tball]

I am curious about how Mac users deal with the MS Word and Excel documents commonly used. I know that MS office is available for a yearly fee that cheap me does not want to pay. Also, is it an issue to transfer ownership/registration if buying a used Mac?

I've got MS Office 2011 Home & Student I bought on a CD that is still plugging along, getting updated, and licensed for three Macs. Looks like it will work on Mojave if I ever get a Mojave Mac. Not sure if you can find/buy a CD and install to avoid the monthly fee?
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8554737

I actually use MS Office very little, instead mostly using Google Docs and Sheets. I can either share those directly with another Google user or export to MS Word and Excel files for an MS user. Either way works great.

There are free open source options Open Office and Libre Office for Mac. I used Mac Open Office for a few years, like 2009-2011, before breaking down and buying MS Office. I think they are much better now and know folks that are happy with them.

Yeah, and in the back of my mind, is the killer deal above on the old MBA during the upcoming Black Friday weekend.

Did you look at the new and old MBA side by side? I haven't been into the Apple store yet. Is the Retina display on the new one going to be worth $500(?!?!) more than the Black Friday deal on the old one?

 

[Philpug]

I have migrated everything over to Apple Pages and Numbers and haven't used Word or Excel in over a decade. What is nice is that I can access everything on my phone and iPad when I need. Like they say with Apple, it just works...except when it doesn't..but those times are few and far between.

 

[tball]

^^^ Yeah, if the Apple apps do everything you need they'd be a great choice. The constant and slow updates of MS Office on the Mac is one of the reasons I only open it if I really need to. I know I'm in for a long update every time I do.

MS manages to deliver a reminder of one of the reasons I dislike their OS right into my Mac. Apple makes updates so much less painful.



f

 

[Living Proof]

Did you look at the new and old MBA side by side? I haven't been into the Apple store yet. Is the Retina display on the new one going to be worth $500(?!?!) more than the Black Friday deal on the old one?

I returned to Mac store and did check out '17 MBA vs '18 retina display. Bottom line the new is not worth a $500 premium (for me who is a windows user). User reviews of '17 MBA's have me very comfortable that that model meets my modest power needs. I do not presently have a retina display, so, no back-stepping in that choice. Admittedly, I have some baggage about Apple premium price points. A new iphone and MBA would cost about $2k, which is somewhat crazy. I've had some discussions with Craigslist sellers of used equipment, and, think they are feeling resale prices sliding due to the recent Apple release even for machines still under original warranty.

I have also been testing the basic '17 Dell XPS 13 9360 that easily meets my soft $1k budget. Great machine, reviews are a little mixed due to start-up concerns.

I am usually fast in decision making, this one will take a few more weeks.

 

[Philpug]

Great machine, reviews are a little mixed due to start-up concerns.

Hmmm. which is it?

 

[Living Proof]

In a prior post @tball linked in a Forbes article that suggests a '17 MBA might be available for $675 in one of the major retail stores Black Friday sales. The best I've come across in the initial BF ads is $800, a $200 discount, which pretty much the same discount offered last year. Anyone who comes across a solid offer of a better deal, please post it.

 

[tball]

Yeah, I'm seeing $799 in the BB ad:

iMac at $899 is also interesting if anyone needs more power. You can't upgrade the RAM in the stupid thing, like most everything Apple makes now, so you are stuck at 8GB. I love my iPad mini. Costco usually has a deal on those too, and a better return policy.

 

[tball]

This is what I get excited about. So tempting to grab as a backup, but think I'll pass:

I am selling a mint condition 2012 Macbook Pro laptop with the original box and charger.
I am upgrading to a new iMac and asking $550 for this one.
15 inch screen, mid 2012 model, 2.6fgz quad core intel i7 wth 16gb of ram and a 512gb SSD
https://denver.craigslist.org/sys/6736029753.html
​

That's the last model you could upgrade and it's got twice the horsepower of a new Air. The only problem is the shorter lifespan since it likely will only receive OS updates for a few more years.

 

[tball]

I bought my first Chromebook!

It's an early Black Friday deal on Lenovo C330 for $179 at BB, normally $279. Going fast, only available for pickup across town for me:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo...gb-emmc-flash-memory-blizzard-white/6296001.p

Yeah, I know this is a Mac thread. I'm actually buying this Chromebook to extend the life of my MacBook Pro.

My thinking is I put a lot of junk miles on my MBP burning through the battery when I'm sitting on the couch or in bed. I also drag my MBP pretty much everywhere just in case I need it, skiing, meetings, etc, putting an expensive machine at risk of damage or theft. And, it's got important stuff on it.

This Chromebook is disposable and nothing's on it. It's all in the cloud.

I'm hoping this Chromebook will take over many of my MBP's secondary duties, and it costs the same as replacing my MBP battery. I plan to leave my MBP plugged into my big screen most of the time. If I need to work away from my office I'll bring both the MBP and Chromebook with me for two screens. I do that with a larger windows laptop occasionally, so this will lighten the load for me a bit.

We'll see how it goes. My kids or parents might end up with it and I'll be back on CL looking for my next Mac.

Here's a review that got me excited about this Lenovo Chromebook:
https://chromeunboxed.com/crazy-pre-black-friday-deal-100-off-the-lenovo-chromebook-c330/

BB also has a Samsung Chromebook 3 on sale for $129 that I considered, but it doesn't have as nice of a screen, as fast of a processor, and isn't touchscreen. It is well built and has good reviews for the price:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsun...gb-emmc-flash-memory-night-charcoal/6239912.p

@Philpug I know you are using Apple apps, but wonder how much of your work from the car could be done in Chrome or an Android app? Maybe one of these could just stay in your car?

 

[Living Proof]

I bought my first Chromebook!

It's an early Black Friday deal on Lenovo C330 for $179 at BB, normally $279. Going fast, only available for pickup across town for me:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-2-in-1-11-6-touch-screen-chromebook-mt8173c-4gb-memory-32gb-emmc-flash-memory-blizzard-white/6296001

Damn, @tball , I had been thinking about a Chromeborok as a supplement to using my PC, and, after reading the above, I bought the C330. This is my first post using the new device, keyboarding on new device is always a challenge. I need a lot more time to learn the basics of the system, BB has a 14 day return policy, so, I'll spend the next few days trying to figure it out. It is very obvious that Goggle OS is in love with ads.
d
My present thinking is at $800 the '17 MBA will be a done deal on Black Friday. I do wish I had your confidence/skills in used MBP, but, a new machine at that price point is compelling for a new Mac user.

 

[tball]

@Living Proof, glad you picked one up and looking forward to hearing how you like it! Mine is still waiting for me at a BB on the other side of town. They totally sold out in the Denver area and are back up to $249, so must be a pretty good deal.

In other Chromebook news I read the Pixelbook will be $300 off for $699. That's the one I really want, maybe next year after I give Chrome OS a spin. (Note for geeks: I'm super excited about ChromeOS after watching this video about the amazing work G is doing to run Linux on Chrome OS. They are turning it into an attractive dev platform.)

My present thinking is at $800 the '17 MBA will be a done deal on Black Friday. I do wish I had your confidence/skills in used MBP, but, a new machine at that price point is compelling for a new Mac user.

I totally agree. For most folks that discounted MBA is hard to beat. Or if you can, wait until Black Friday next year and get the new MBA for a similar price.

I just need more horsepower and the cost to get the fastest chip and a bunch of memory in a new Mac is insane. I've had great luck buying a couple used Macs, but never paid more than $450, and it's always a risk. I know a bit about what I'm doing, but there is always somebody that knows much more that can screw you. It's also a time suck, more like a fun hobby. I think the used Mac places with warranties or CPO from Apple makes more sense in most cases but costs a lot more.

I'm curious what folks are doing to stay secure on their Macs that are no longer getting security updates. I'm stuck on El Capitan on a perfectly good MBP and deciding what to do with it.

 

[Steve]

Why are you stuck on El Cap? Does the machine not allow upgrades that far, must be pretty old. My 2010 machines all support the latest OS.

As I posted previously I've bought literally dozens of used Macs over the years and never had a problem. Right now I have 4 2010 MacBook Airs all in daily use and all work fine. The worst problem is on my personal machine. The spring that holds the screen vertical has lost much of it's tension so it can tilt back on me at times, and is apparently not repairable.

I did have my keyboard replaced, and have had SSD's put in some older machines. Battery replacements aren't that big a deal if you need that, but the machines keep going and going.

 

[tball]

Why are you stuck on El Cap? Does the machine not allow upgrades that far, must be pretty old. My 2010 machines all support the latest OS.

It's a 2009 MacBook Pro. All 2009's are stuck on El Cap (10.11). You need a mid-2010 MBP to upgrade to Sierra (10.12), the oldest MacOS currently receiving security updates.

You can see the system requirements for each major version of MacOs on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X_El_Capitan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Sierra

So my 2009 MBP works fantastic, it's just not secure. The security updates have stopped coming. Increasingly, this is a huge deal.

Apple makes fantastic hardware and has a great OS, but they are terrible in this regard. They never tell you when your computer has been end-of-lifed. When you check for updates, it says it's up to date. Not true. It's a security vulnerability. See this article:
https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/what-to-do-if-your-mac-cant-run-macos-sierra/

So the MPB I paid $3000 for 9 years ago is no longer safe. Pretty lame and very un-green. It's a very useful computer if they would provide security updates.

@Steve it looks like your 2010 Air's are in the same boat as my 2011 17" MBP. We can't upgrade to the latest OS Mojave (10.14) and are stuck on High Sierra (10.13).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Mojave

That means we only have two years of security updates coming for your 2010's and my 2011 if Apple follows past protocol as described by these articles:
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...t-starts-retirement-clock-for-el-capitan.html
https://www.howtogeek.com/350901/which-releases-of-macos-are-supported-with-security-updates/

For those looking at new Macs the new Air will undoubtedly be supported longer than the old, and likely longer than the current MBP. Yet another factor to consider when comparing.

 

[Steve]

That's interesting as the app store keeps asking me to upgrade to Mojave. I checked your sources and others and it does say that my 2010 MBA can only go to High Sierra. However when I click through the download and upgrade and install Mojave in the App Store it doesn't tell me I can't install. Until one more app I use works with Mojave I don't want to upgrade, but I will try when I can.

It would be odd if it got all the way to the restart and install screen before it told me it wasn't compatible but wouldn't surprise me if that's what happens. In any case High Sierra is fine with me. Hopefully you're wrong about the two year limit.

I also have a couple of Core 2 Duo Mac Minis which are running on Sierra (2010 machines also) and have been able to keep up with Security updates.

 

[tball]

That's interesting as the app store keeps asking me to upgrade to Mojave.

Yeah, Apple teases you with the latest upgrade. Then when you click download you get a message saying it can't be installed on your computer:

Again, they never tell you when your Mac is no longer secure. According to this article, up to 25% of Macs are running a retired OS at the moment and that will decline to 13% over the course of the year:
https://www.computerworld.com/artic...t-starts-retirement-clock-for-el-capitan.html

It's just a matter of time before at least some of those Macs are compromised. Maybe at that point Apple will change this practice, even if it's just to give you a big red danger warning when you boot an insecure Mac.

 

[Ron]

not directly on topic but close I am looking for a docking option for my 2017 MBP, I am considering the Henge docking systems, https://hengedocks.com/pages/vertic...T5hbEj7OB1NvDVruEYWC0KxZGX3Mn2hRoCgysQAvD_BwE and wating for their new dock along with the "stone". i still need a dedicated work station for work but want the ability to quickly and easily dock and undock. Any experience??

 

[Steve]

I actually got past the Download link and to the accept terms page. After that it would restart the computer and actually download Mojave, the initial download is just the installer.

I didn't try to continue beyond that as I don't want to upgrade to Mojave yet, but next week when my scheduling software moves to the cloud I'll be able to try. I'm sure you're right that it will refuse to upgrade at that point in time. Mactracker, which is a great app I've used for years, also says that High Sierra is as high as the 2011 MBA's will go.

 

[Living Proof]

For the last few days, I have been using the Leveno chromebook discussed above, and, am very comfortable with using a smaller screen computer. The reopens my options to consider the smaller Macbook 12". I spent some time with one at BestBuy, was not sure that I would like the small size, but that was prior to the experience with the Chromebook. Via Craigslist, I can purchase a 6 month old '17 Macbook for less than $800 which is the cost of a '17 MBA on Black Friday. I would return my Leveno as the 14 day window is open through the Black Friday weekend.
The only knock I see on the 12" MB is it only has a single USB C port, so, I would need to purchase some dongles.
Thoughts?

 

[VickiK]

I decided to buy the 13" MB Pro without the Touch Bar and Touch ID. Guess those new skis are gonna have to wait a little. Will push fixing the front bumper out to 2019.

@Living Proof , do you feel confident buying it off of Craigslist? The current 13" MBP offers 2 ports and the Retina display.