Mogul ski as it relates to skiing a direct line in moguls

[LiquidFeet]

Hey @jack97, are pole lengths getting shorter? Seems so from that Killington 90’s? vid where pole lengths were relatively long.



My solution is to abolish the Demo team. Stop spending all that money there. Maybe do some decent written material.

I like the demo team. It serves a purpose. Part of that purpose should be to write up better written material. PSIA relies on mentoring too much. Mentoring amounts to word of mouth transfer of essential professional information.
Really?

 

[Seldomski]

Most moguls coaches will say to maintain forward pressure from the backside to the face of the upcoming bump. As you crest up the bump that outside leg should be near or all fully weighted. There are vids of mogul skiers performing flat land drills where they (micro) carve or pivot turn into a fully flex position. Its when you apex that crest that you transfer the weight to start that pressure again on the new outside leg. Some think of transferring the weight early to get themselves ready for that crest.

If you getting thrown to your backseat when you apply forward pressure at the face of the bump then you are not actively absorbing.

This is something I got hung up on for a while. It comes down to words and interpretations of things. "Drive your tips into the face of the mogul" is what I was told. I interpreted this to mean aggressively pressure the tip into the mogul. When I hear "pressure" I think "extend legs and resist collapse." But you have to stop extending as you impact it - actually the opposite since you are supposed to be flexing as you arrive at the top.

So I think more now about "pointing" or "guiding" the tips to that spot (mogul face), not about "driving," since "driving" to me comes bundled with a bunch of other stuff that isn't correct technique. I try to keep the absorption piece and what I am doing with the ski tips separate mentally, which helps me for whatever reason.

I also feel like there is a lot about the direct line that is trying to prevent a modern carving ski from doing its thing (ie hooking up and pulling you into a carve). The more modern/carvy the ski, the more likely it becomes that you displace feet left/right under the body. You will need to fight the desire of the ski and keep guiding the tips into the mogul faces. The modern ski will be happier (give more performance) skiing the outside bank line, which is much rounder. But it's not direct and once you end up on a round line, you have to make a big adjustment to get back to a direct line.

 

[James]

I like the demo team. It serves a purpose. Part of that purpose should be to write up better written material. PSIA relies on mentoring too much. Mentoring amounts to word of mouth transfer of essential professional information.
Really?

Not happening. It’s sort of unfair to ask this in that system.
The two don’t seem to be compatible. It’s Olympic type tryouts.

Team Canada mogul skier’s equipment-

 

[jack97]

Hey @jack97, are pole lengths getting shorter? Seems so from that Killington 90’s? vid where pole lengths were relatively long.

Much like the techniques use in competition, the poles have changed thru time. Yes, its gotten shorter since the 90s era, the length right now is up to the hip bone that sticks out. Below is Dale Begg Smith from 10 Vancouver games. There is some wiggle room, some slightly taller or shorter.

 

[jack97]

Team Canada mogul skier’s equipment-

I got a big chuckle about the mouth guard as well.

 

[jack97]

This is something I got hung up on for a while. It comes down to words and interpretations of things. "Drive your tips into the face of the mogul" is what I was told. I interpreted this to mean aggressively pressure the tip into the mogul. When I hear "pressure" I think "extend legs and resist collapse." But you have to stop extending as you impact it - actually the opposite since you are supposed to be flexing as you arrive at the top.

So I think more now about "pointing" or "guiding" the tips to that spot (mogul face), not about "driving," since "driving" to me comes bundled with a bunch of other stuff that isn't correct technique. I try to keep the absorption piece and what I am doing with the ski tips separate mentally, which helps me for whatever reason.

I totally get it, the wording part. What works best for me is the drills the coaches make the athletes do to reinforce those concepts. Seeing the drill of Janne carve turns as he flexes lower. See the vid at 4:55. Its really about applying and maintaining that forward pressure all the way into a flex position.



Or in the absorption tank drill, you really need to drive those tips into the face of the upcoming roller and maintain that forward pressure while flexing a bit. I was told about this drill from campers. Further, I was fortunate enough that a local area had these for a couple of seasons and I got to practice on them.

 

[Seldomski]

Side note, it looks like the forums are becoming moguled.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

@jack97 thank you for another video example of a Bump Tank to show my bosses for next season!

@Seldomski No, just the Ski School subforum. And it is because all of us Level II's were inspired by that instructor who passed Level III at 67 years old. And we know that moguls are one of the things that are stopping us!

 

[jack97]

@jack97 thank you for another video example of a Bump Tank to show my bosses for next season!

The local area had rollers and several banked turns, this was part of a small ski cross section. At that time, they had no official race program. IIRC, the ski schools would use it all the time to develop technique and skills. At the entrance, students and instructors would queue up with me right behind them or ahead of them. It was a popular part of that trail.

 

[James]

Much like the techniques use in competition, the poles have changed thru time.

In that Daniel Tanner equipment vid, he says he’s been using 96cm, 38in, poles and is going to try 102cm, 40 in poles. That’s pretty short.
What about the new style grip where they hold the middle/bottom of the grip? How does strap wearing interact with the low grip?

 

[jack97]

^^^ I use a bottom grip, My hand and fingers wrap around the straps as part of the handle. That middle/bottom grip is to flick the poles. A really firm grip is not the intent nor using the pole as a blocking plant.

BTW, I buy poles on sale and use a pipe cutter to get them to the right length.

 

[no edge]

- Head TITAN

- Head i Titan. Can't believe it was mentioned for comparison. He was on a 166. I ski a 170. I have done well over the years in the bumps buy not with the i Titan. It is just too stiff and I think my age takes away some of my confidence. I like to blame everything on my boots as well. How about the Hart F-17 shown. That ski offered my the best experience in the bumps ever. There are several different F-17s. The one I skied had much more side-cut than the others.

The "tic-toc" was good to hear. I count "1 / 2" to establish tempo. (Learned that while coaching swimming, the backstroke). Also the teepee or wide skis almost in a wedge - knees in. Back in the 70s I used that, the teepee, which allowed me to weight the outside ski - it used to be the down hill ski.

 

[locknload]

First, you are not a pain if you are asking questions with sincerity. I would say skiing direct requires a variety of techniques and the skills to accomplish them. The techniques are some that have been discussed recently. Further, the bump formation factors in as well, man made formation or natural, then you throw in conditions and steepness.

It is extremely difficult to say where is that perfect spot to aim for at that face, it really depends on many factors and what you are trying to accomplish. Below is vid from the Canadian Freestyle team, go to 9:03 on how the line is use to control speed. Again, you can go with a wider line or a more narrow line, having that precision is still key to all of this. This is much akin to racers having those extra tight boots so that they have precision in the foot movement.

As a side, skiing a direct line is much about absorption and extension (A&E) along with turns. I have only talked about turns because of vids of Deb, Aldegheri and mogul ski design speaks to this. Check out the section before 9:03 where they talk about A&E. Its that important, further I have had "Epic" thread wars on this topic.

This series on Canadian mogul skiing is amazing and its essentially the same ethos as the momentum ski camp up on Horstman Glacier in the summer that I attended for a few years and I'd like to go back. Clearly many of the videos are filmed there.

Part 2 is amazing...the skiing set to music really allows you to feel skiing at its highest level...taken to art form really. To be able to ski those kinds of mogul lines and throw in the ridiculous air that they do is one of the most athletically impressive feats across all sport. It is so moving and inspiring and I know speaks to many of us who are always chasing our own version of improvement and perfection even as us mortals will never reach the skill level that these men women do. Wow...thx for re-posting, it had been awhile since I saw this....it was mesmerizing.

 

[James]

Yeah the Canadian mogul vids are great, never saw before. And they’re not in Japanese.

 

[James]

Date night. Guy lets girl ski on his comp mogul skis. She should’ve held out for some 173’s:

 

[Noodler]

Date night. Guy lets girl ski on his comp mogul skis. She should’ve held out for some 173’s:

Too funny. I gravitated right to this video too right after watching Danny's equipment video...

 

[Rod9301]

I used to ski moguls on mogul specific skis, salomon or hart.

My style was to ski the zipper line, not always good, but always trying.

A few years ago i started to ski exclusively on the metal katanas, 112 under foot.

I find that it is difficult to ski the zipper line, and i wonder if it is the ski or the fact that I'm out of practice in moguls.

 

[François Pugh]

I think most of the problem is use of language. At first I noticed that the folks giving instruction were not high school physics teachers, but then I realized most of the people listening to instruction were not into physics either.

The word "absorption" is a problem. Good absorption is the most important key to good mogul skiing, IMHO. But what does that mean? In French they have the word "avalement", which means swallowing, so it's obvious you have to "swallow" the bump. That's more intuitive to me.

A little physics does help. Please bear with me; it really does. Forces have direction, you can think of any force as being a combination of two forces, each with its own separate direction. You can think of any force acting on you or your skis as being one force pushing you up (or down) the slope and another force as pushing you away from (or into) the slope (90 degrees from the line parallel to the overall slope (this line is 30 degrees to the horizontal for a 30 degree slope) It is the force that pushes you away from the slope that you have to swallow - so you don't get air-borne, and so you can maintain a downforce on the skis and thereby have some friction. The amount of the other force you swallow is up to you, but you might want to swallow some of it to even/smooth it out.

It all adds up. As the main thing is to keep your skis in good contact with the snow so they can give you that up-slope slowing-down force, absorption comes first. Then we have the main force contributor friction from edges going sideways. Next we have if you push the tip of your ski into the snow it will push back and bend as it does so. The last one is little dealt with, because if you don't have the first two things down, you're screwed. With all these forces, you absorb or swallow the up-off-the snow forces (well, most of it; it has to average out to gravity or you would end up in the centre of the Earth instead of on the surface of it and you need some into the snow-off the snow force for friction), but use the up-slope forces as you wish.

When you're good enough, you can compensate for less sideways skiing force in a more direct line with more tip pushing force.

 

[tball]

I used to ski moguls on mogul specific skis, salomon or hart.

My style was to ski the zipper line, not always good, but always trying.

A few years ago i started to ski exclusively on the metal katanas, 112 under foot.

I find that it is difficult to ski the zipper line, and i wonder if it is the ski or the fact that I'm out of practice in moguls.

I'll assume this is a serious question.

Trouble skiing the zipper line on 112mm metal Katanas? Surprised?

Oh, boy. Yes, a wider, longer, stiffer ski is more difficult in the bumps. Particularly in the zipper line.

A good bump skier can make it work. Somebody learning will interminably struggle in the bumps with a ski like that, then go back to straight-lining bowls from whence they came.

I've got 110mm Sickles I can make work in the bumps. They actually have a nice moderate even flex, but the width makes them a ton of work, slow edge to edge and exhausting in the zipper line. Amazing ski, but not much fun in the bumps other than the novelty.

As my quiver of skis gets narrower and shorter they get better in the bumps. I don't have a bump ski, unfortunately, but a one size down 80mm Nordica Navigator does pretty well for me.

 

[Rod9301]

I'll assume this is a serious question.

Trouble skiing the zipper line on 112mm metal Katanas? Surprised?

Oh, boy. Yes, a wider, longer, stiffer ski is more difficult in the bumps. Particularly in the zipper line.

A good bump skier can make it work. Somebody learning will interminably struggle in the bumps with a ski like that, then go back to straight-lining bowls from whence they came.

I've got 110mm Sickles I can make work in the bumps. They actually have a nice moderate even flex, but the width makes them a ton of work, slow edge to edge and exhausting in the zipper line. Amazing ski, but not much fun in the bumps other than the novelty.

As my quiver of skis gets narrower and shorter they get better in the bumps. I don't have a bump ski, unfortunately, but a one size down 80mm Nordica Navigator does pretty well for me.

I was serious. The katanas are great everywhere, but I'm struggling a bit in steep bumps.