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coskigirl

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Just found this article which explains it. Essentially, it's really difficult to nearly impossible to do.

https://www.kennerlyloutey.com/workers-compensation-isnt-enough-wrongful-death/

Is there any way they can sue Loveland? Say, wrongful death? Or is it totally nixed by Workers Comp.

Appreciate your expertise in this thread.

The family can’t sue Loveland for anything. The WC statute provides no fault coverage for employees who are injured at work. So, employees are covered even if it is their own negligence that causes the injury. The trade off for no fault coverage is that employees are limited to WC benefits. Employers do not have to be worried about being sued in civil court. WC benefits have statutory limits as oppsed to letting a jury decide damages.

WC medical care is better than any health insurance plan. So most of the time, WC is a great deal for employees.

The article I posted earlier in the thread addresses the issue nicely. As Nancy said earlier they would need to look to the equipment manufacturer for any sort of civil suit at this point which isn't an impossibility depending on the role the malfunction of it played in the death.
 

Nancy Hummel

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Different states have different WC laws. In Utah, it is possible to sue employer in certain extreme circumstances.
 

BGreen

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To be sure it wasn't fake news

Tony Kovaleski can be a bit sensationalistic, but he won’t fabricate anything and generally does it right. He’s committed to uncovering truth and doesn’t usually take sides, though he pushes the “investigative journalist” thing a bit far. I like that there’s still a few of his kind around.

I was just wondering about the report because I couldn’t find it.
 

Paul Lutes

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I'm still trying to wrap my head around the second operator trying to restart the equipment 7 times; was it kicking off because it was jammed (with the deceased!)! Was the second operator trying to force it to clear by restarting???? Were there any follow-up details released about the second operator?
 

François Pugh

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There are limits to how much WC or other legislation can protect anyone from being sued for gross negligence.
e.g. The boss decides it's OK for him to drive the Cat full speed through a crowd blindfolded. Hey, you can't touch him;it's a work accident........NOT.
 

jmeb

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There are limits to how much WC or other legislation can protect anyone from being sued for gross negligence.
e.g. The boss decides it's OK for him to drive the Cat full speed through a crowd blindfolded. Hey, you can't touch him;it's a work accident........NOT.

Are you a lawyer for WC in the USA? If not, might be best to defer to @Nancy Hummel in these matters.
 

Average Joe

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Workers’ Compensation is the exclusive remedy against employer/insurer. Widow can’t sue Loveland for negligence. She can sue other parties such as manufacturer of lift.

Just being “high” is not enough. The being “high” must cause accident.
And the complication is the difficulty to prove the level of “high” in a deceased.
THC lingers around for a long time in the blood, as do other drugs. I’m no expert in the matter but I’ll guess that different people are affected to different degrees from identical doses of drugs.
So even though his THC level was over 8 times the limit, there is no way to know if it contributed to the accident.
Machinery with exposed drive belts and gears is not forgiving to the inattentive.
Every time I service my machinery the power is disconnected - not off, disconnected. Routers unplugged when changing bits. And the tractor engine is always off when working around the power take off.
A one in a million chance is too much.
 

Monique

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Also, while I was working at a resort, I overheard an asst manager talking to a new employee and had to do a double take because I couldn't believe what I heard. "We know that there is a culture of weed in the ski industry, so I won't tell you not to smoke weed, but I will tell you that you WILL be drug tested if you're involved in an incident. Just don't get involved in an incident."

I know several career ski instructors, and they stay far away from any sort of illegal drug. There's a big difference between risking your "free ski pass!" winter job and risking your career.

I'm not sure what I think of that assistant manager's words. It's probably realistic =/

Interesting. Marijuana is also legal in Washington (state), however I haven’t seen any noticeable increase in employees being stoned to that point at Stevens Pass, or other businesses. Maybe I’m just not paying attention........

I also haven't noticed an increase in Colorado employees being stoned - probably because many were also clearly stoned in the years preceding legalization.

I know several Colorado resorts emphasize that marijuana is not legal from a federal perspective and that there is a zero tolerance policy for drugs in the workplace. It is no secret.

It's funny how many people are upset that, as they misunderstand it, people can just show up to work stoned, and the company can't do anything about it. One moment's thought would reveal that this is complete nonsense - Companies can fire you for showing up to work drunk. Or in fact for just about anything, as long as it's not explicitly protected.

Isn't there a government agency that issues an operating permit for all ski lifts including a Magic Carpet and wouldn't there be inspections that would identify the deficiencies, including the absence of a Lock Out System?

This reminds me of the woman who went up the Silverton lift without skis or a snowboard. We all thought the top of the lift looked horrifying, but it passed inspection.

where do i allocate my internet outrage points for this update related to benefits and money? maybe 15% on the wc rule, 85% on the guy; (Note: outrage on the accident itself already expended back in first post and dwarfs this update ).
get your affairs in order people

I can't find the outrage. Very few people below, say, 50 - probably a higher number - can really wrap their heads around mortality. I was lucky in that Eric's company provided a significant amount of life insurance "for free," and makes it easy to add more. (We decided not to, because we don't have kids). He had no will. His death was a wakeup call for a lot of families, and at least there's that. But when he was having a heart attack, he found ways to convince himself it was something else. When a few weeks later I had an anaphylactic reaction, I chose to avoid the ER and just went home and took a Benadryl.

I probably shouldn't have used the word "immortal" but I think all of us agree to things because we think nothing bad will ever happen to us.
I know I put off buying a life insurance policy for several years because I was young and healthy. What could go wrong? Then one day, I had a close call and made an appointment with an insurance guy.

Exactly. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a lift operator with a couple of kids is already on a pretty tight monthly budget. (I don't know if his wife works outside the home, obviously.)

The threshold in Colorado for an impairment violation while driving is 5 ng/ml of THC in the bloodstream.
According to the toxicology report in the link, Adam Lee had a level of 41 mg/ml of THC in his blood.
That's 8 times the legal limit.
I'm no expert on the subject, but.........

I'm no expert on the subject, but as the only tests in existence show THC even if it was consumed a month ago, I don't think proves anything.
 

jmeb

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And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a lift operator with a couple of kids is already on a pretty tight monthly budget.

Just a clarification -- this fellow wasn't lift ops. He was lift maintenance. Different crews, skill sets, and pay grades. Nonetheless, still a tough budget in Summit Co.
 

SBrown

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I'm still trying to wrap my head around the second operator trying to restart the equipment 7 times; was it kicking off because it was jammed (with the deceased!)! Was the second operator trying to force it to clear by restarting???? Were there any follow-up details released about the second operator?

http://adamleetruthloveland.com/

http://www.westword.com/news/adam-lee-loveland-ski-area-death-9874818
http://www.westword.com/news/adam-lee-loveland-ski-area-death-report-9895472
http://www.westword.com/news/adam-lee-loveland-ski-area-death-website-9956350
 

jmeb

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Isn't this a simple case of personal priorities!

Sorta kinda. But it is also a complex legal question and an interesting social question. Few in the US would ever argue that someone using alcohol in their off hours should result in them not being allowed to have a job. Even fewer would argue that people should not be allowed to take drugs that are helpful with particular medical conditions and which those drugs do not effect the job at hand. I think probably its a select group that believes companies should be able to dictate exactly what employees put in their bodies that are within the realm legal per the state.

Point is -- it's only a simple case if you strip it away from all contexts or potential precedents it sets.

But all this is thread drift and probably social philosophizing over the relationship between the State, employers, and employees re:what off-hours employees are allowed to do with their bodies in off hours isn't best done on a ski forum.
 

jmeb

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Damn. I really feel for her and her family. It hurts me a bit personally to be spending money at a place that had as many OSHA Serious-level violations that put their employees at risk. (And yes, I know OSHA can be a bit heavy handed at times.)

But I've got to think any lawyer would encourage her to remove that website. Her writing isn't going to help her in either the PR sphere or legal challenges.
 

Ross Biff

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Sorta kinda. But it is also a complex legal question and an interesting social question. Few in the US would ever argue that someone using alcohol in their off hours should result in them not being allowed to have a job. Even fewer would argue that people should not be allowed to take drugs that are helpful with particular medical conditions and which those drugs do not effect the job at hand. I think probably its a select group that believes companies should be able to dictate exactly what employees put in their bodies that are within the realm legal per the state.

Point is -- it's only a simple case if you strip it away from all contexts or potential precedents it sets.

But all this is thread drift and probably social philosophizing over the relationship between the State, employers, and employees re:what off-hours employees are allowed to do with their bodies in off hours isn't best done on a ski forum.
Well put. I probably should have said " a complex case of personal priorities"
 

Tricia

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Damn. I really feel for her and her family. It hurts me a bit personally to be spending money at a place that had as many OSHA Serious-level violations that put their employees at risk. (And yes, I know OSHA can be a bit heavy handed at times.)

But I've got to think any lawyer would encourage her to remove that website. Her writing isn't going to help her in either the PR sphere or legal challenges.
I was thinking similar thoughts as I read it.
One of the things talked about is a job promotion for which she was passed up shortly after her husband's death. I can imagine being reevaluated for a job when someone is amidst such emotional upheaval. This blog is a tear jerker, for sure. I understand why she is doing it, but it isn't helping her in the long term.
 

fatbob

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I can see why she's doing it and if WC laws means she can't directly sue what has she got to lose? The lack of safety protocols that allow a lift op to nto know or wilfully ignore the fact that there may be a maintenance operator working on the equipment must be concerning to anyone and if what she said about the "show must go on" with a worker's corpse still on the scene is even remotely true then it doesn't speak highly of LL mgt decision making.
 

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