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raytseng

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I think you misunderstand me. In this case sure there is a worksmans comp benefit to argue over, but it seems thst is just by chance that this becomes a corner case they can argue over. I agree they can argue it as they like, but the rule was as it was stated at the time.
Just because this is a new story of a benefit that got reduced somehow draws the focus to elevates the wc as the one magical thing that should've covered every kind of bad event and made everything right when clearly its not.

My point was to look beyond overfocusing on this one corner scenario and think about all similar surviving families that may face a similar financial predicament, what would be the probability that the cause that put them there falls under this wc decision versus unexpectedly dying in other circumstances with no benefit to argue over.

Then what should be the focus of the outrage or action or effort demanded? I think that changing one cornercase in the wc law, won't help as many people compared to reminding everyone to get their affairs in order.

Finally this is Not to say you can't do both, just that this cornercase has way too much focus on 1 aspect of 1 benefit because its a somewhat weird and new and odd. Sure change the rule and clarify and maybe 2 or 3 more families get increased benefits moving forward, but that does nothing for the buckets of survivors where wc didnt apply.

where do i allocate my internet outrage points for this update related to benefits and money? maybe 15% on the wc rule, 85% on the guy; (Note: outrage on the accident itself already expended back in first post and dwarfs this update ).
get your affairs in order people
 
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graham418

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Isn't there a government agency that issues an operating permit for all ski lifts including a Magic Carpet and wouldn't there be inspections that would identify the deficiencies, including the absence of a Lock Out System?
Lock-out procedures and all other SOP's should be covered in the companies Corporate Health and Safety Policy, and related Safety Manuals . Having SOP's for these potentially dangerous operations is imperative, along with proper training for the employees .
 

Nancy Hummel

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Isn't there a government agency that issues an operating permit for all ski lifts including a Magic Carpet and wouldn't there be inspections that would identify the deficiencies, including the absence of a Lock Out System?

Even if no operating permit is needed in Colorado, and if workers compensation is provided by a private insurance company, wouldn't that insurance company do their own inspection of the equipment and workers that they are covering?

I just don't understand how there can be a maintenance worker crawling under a conveyor belt with no machine lockout and apparently no radio communication between the maintenance worker and the lift shack.

It is my understanding that this agency oversees all lifts, surface tows etc. https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dora/Tramway_Program_Info
 

jmeb

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Lock-out procedures and all other SOP's should be covered in the companies Corporate Health and Safety Policy, and related Safety Manuals . Having SOP's for these potentially dangerous operations is imperative, along with proper training for the employees .

If you look at the OSHA findings, you'll find Loveland Ski Area appears to have failed in this regard.
 

coskigirl

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Apologies -- I don't mean to question you background in these matters or quote out of context. I simply found it a bit "off" to be speculating about this adult's state of mind (the "immortal" quote) when he agreed to terms of employment. Unfortunately the reality of american workers, esp those in blue collar jobs with dangerous conditions, is that they either agree to terms of employment offered to them, or they cannot get a job.

I guess I don't see what that adds to our understanding of the this matter when we a) don't have any idea if he was intoxicated or not at the time of the accident and b) have documentation that appropriate safety procedures were not in place.

This is certainly an issue. As someone deep into dealing with GDPR issues for my global company one of the issues is personal data from employees. Under GDPR, employers cannot rely on consent because it cannot be freely given due to the imbalance of power. This is why I mentioned that I feel like there needs to be a better sort of notice and explanation of possible consequences given to employees. A sort of "Yes, marajuana is legal in Colorado, however it is still illegal federally. In addition, laws in Colorado may not protect you or your family should there be any sort if accident or injury on the job and consequences can be reduction or elimination of certain benefits." Perhaps this should even be part of the safety training done.
 

Nancy Hummel

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This is certainly an issue. As someone deep into dealing with GDPR issues for my global company one of the issues is personal data from employees. Under GDPR, employers cannot rely on consent because it cannot be freely given due to the imbalance of power. This is why I mentioned that I feel like there needs to be a better sort of notice and explanation of possible consequences given to employees. A sort of "Yes, marajuana is legal in Colorado, however it is still illegal federally. In addition, laws in Colorado may not protect you or your family should there be any sort if accident or injury on the job and consequences can be reduction or elimination of certain benefits." Perhaps this should even be part of the safety training done.

Many employers do this. It is amazing the number of people who are terminated due to zero tolerance policy violations.
 

Tricia

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Apologies -- I don't mean to question you background in these matters or quote out of context. I simply found it a bit "off" to be speculating about this adult's state of mind (the "immortal" quote) when he agreed to terms of employment. Unfortunately the reality of american workers, esp those in blue collar jobs with dangerous conditions, is that they either agree to terms of employment offered to them, or they cannot get a job.

I guess I don't see what that adds to our understanding of the this matter when we a) don't have any idea if he was intoxicated or not at the time of the accident and b) have documentation that appropriate safety procedures were not in place.
I probably shouldn't have used the word "immortal" but I think all of us agree to things because we think nothing bad will ever happen to us.
I know I put off buying a life insurance policy for several years because I was young and healthy. What could go wrong? Then one day, I had a close call and made an appointment with an insurance guy.
 
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Dwight

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Many employers do this. It is amazing the number of people who are terminated due to zero tolerance policy violations.
Just as amazing as the number of people that can't get jobs because of drug testing.
 

raytseng

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I feel like there needs to be a better sort of note and explanation of possible consequences given to employees. A sort of "Yes, marajuana is legal in Colorado, however it is still illegal federally. In addition, laws in Colorado may not protect you or your family should there be any sort if accident or injury on the job and consequences can be reduction or elimination of certain benefits." Perhaps this should even be part of the safety training done.
Will preface that my following comment is only about the benefit and not about the accident itself which is horrible. Nor am I commenting on hypothetical weed usage itself during the accident.

Yes the laws and the language and program shouldn't be confusing by design or worded to wiggle out of payments and communicated.
But I would assert that many enthusiasts are actually highly aware of weed laws, but even informed will choose the risky path anyway. I have no problem with that decision, the problem is that the individual pretty much will never do the work to take additional action to mitigate the extra risk (supplemental life insurance).

It's similar as declining or accepting rental car insurance. You better understand the risks and whether you have a gap or double coverage. Just because Joe Blow declines all the time he may have other insurance to cover him. If you don't understand this detail you might be double paying or at risk of fall into a financial trap. You dont expect the rental counter guy to disclose and explain this to you, you need to find out and know.
 

Average Joe

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The threshold in Colorado for an impairment violation while driving is 5 ng/ml of THC in the bloodstream.
According to the toxicology report in the link, Adam Lee had a level of 41 mg/ml of THC in his blood.
That's 8 times the legal limit.
I'm no expert on the subject, but.........
 

mdf

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But that is beside the point. It might be relevant legally, but not morally.
If intoxiction had led the victim to ignore the lock-out procedures, then maybe. But there wasn't one!

Processes and procedures exist to make things safe even when people do dumb things, because that is what people do (even when sober).
 

François Pugh

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Ok 41 ng/ml, not 41 mg/ml. He probably was high.

Regardless the result allows the WC company to save some money by law. Nevertheless not having a lock out procedure on a piece of equipment like that means she should be able to collect a heck of a lot more than the full WC benefits from the employer.
 

Average Joe

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Ok 41 ng/ml, not 41 mg/ml. He probably was high.

Regardless the result allows the WC company to save some money by law. Nevertheless not having a lock out procedure on a piece of equipment like that means she should be able to collect a heck of a lot more than the full WC benefits from the employer.
If I’m not mistaken, workers comp claims are paid out by the insurer, not the employer.
If the widow hires a competent workers comp lawyer she will receive maximum benefits allowable by law.
A negligence claim against the ski area is probably a separate civil suit.
 

Nancy Hummel

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If I’m not mistaken, workers comp claims are paid out by the insurer, not the employer.
If the widow hires a competent workers comp lawyer she will receive maximum benefits allowable by law.
A negligence claim against the ski area is probably a separate civil suit.

Workers’ Compensation is the exclusive remedy against employer/insurer. Widow can’t sue Loveland for negligence. She can sue other parties such as manufacturer of lift.

Just being “high” is not enough. The being “high” must cause accident.
 

Nancy Hummel

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Is there any way they can sue Loveland? Say, wrongful death? Or is it totally nixed by Workers Comp.

Appreciate your expertise in this thread.

The family can’t sue Loveland for anything. The WC statute provides no fault coverage for employees who are injured at work. So, employees are covered even if it is their own negligence that causes the injury. The trade off for no fault coverage is that employees are limited to WC benefits. Employers do not have to be worried about being sued in civil court. WC benefits have statutory limits as oppsed to letting a jury decide damages.

WC medical care is better than any health insurance plan. So most of the time, WC is a great deal for employees.
 

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