This thread cracks me up. One of the founders of this site is well-known (at least in my head) for some of these mistakes. Do we love him any less? No, we don't! And we cut him a lot of slack because we know him.
I think the google thing is accepted usage in Europe. At least, I get that feeling from reading a number of German posts.
I apply that rule when it makes sense to me. And I feel like maybe that rule doesn't apply in British English. I speak English goodly, but I don't understand putting the question mark inside a quote when I'm asking the question, or putting the exclamation point inside a quote when I'm the one who's excited.
Can you believe he said, "Bring your own lunches?!"
That makes no kind of sense to me.
Where proper form and clarity collide, always opt for clarity. I feel the same way about natural languages as I do about code on this one.
Susan's point about code switching is important. I just listened to a Cracked podcast that made some really important points about how class and income are distinct in the US, and our language usage is part of that. When I was young and knew everything about everything, I pooh-poohed Ebonics and other forms of dialect. These days, I'm not so quick to judge. I've started seeing language choices as a way for privileged groups to exclude other groups. Also please don't ask me to spell privilege without a spell checker. On the other hand, "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" is one of the most hilarious books ever.
What I find really funny/interesting is when my father or my mother in law, who both take great pride in their proper English, use expressions like "I feel badly for she and I." (twofer!) And my MIL will try to correct people who say "They did the test on her and me." They seem to have internalized some rule that "me" is *never* the right word, even with an indirect object. Actually, my MIL's need to correct others' grammar made me realize how pointless it was - how it's just a way of giving yourself a little dose of self-righteousness at the expense of someone else's dignity. So I have tried to stop that shit. Professional organizations, of course, are a different matter. But I'll admit that I still judge people for using terrible English in work communication, unless English isn't their first language.
Oh, but hey, sometimes clarity isn't the point. I'm thinking the Benji chapter in The Sound and the Fury. Confusion was the point.
I was just listening to a Slate podcast (yes, I listen to a lot of podcasts!) about some major institution accepting "they" and "their" to represent individuals. It was not clear to me if they were speaking of the generalized singular (I just made up that term) or if they were speaking of cases where the subject did not identify with a single gender.
I think the google thing is accepted usage in Europe. At least, I get that feeling from reading a number of German posts.
I apply that rule when it makes sense to me. And I feel like maybe that rule doesn't apply in British English. I speak English goodly, but I don't understand putting the question mark inside a quote when I'm asking the question, or putting the exclamation point inside a quote when I'm the one who's excited.
Can you believe he said, "Bring your own lunches?!"
That makes no kind of sense to me.
Where proper form and clarity collide, always opt for clarity. I feel the same way about natural languages as I do about code on this one.
Susan's point about code switching is important. I just listened to a Cracked podcast that made some really important points about how class and income are distinct in the US, and our language usage is part of that. When I was young and knew everything about everything, I pooh-poohed Ebonics and other forms of dialect. These days, I'm not so quick to judge. I've started seeing language choices as a way for privileged groups to exclude other groups. Also please don't ask me to spell privilege without a spell checker. On the other hand, "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" is one of the most hilarious books ever.
What I find really funny/interesting is when my father or my mother in law, who both take great pride in their proper English, use expressions like "I feel badly for she and I." (twofer!) And my MIL will try to correct people who say "They did the test on her and me." They seem to have internalized some rule that "me" is *never* the right word, even with an indirect object. Actually, my MIL's need to correct others' grammar made me realize how pointless it was - how it's just a way of giving yourself a little dose of self-righteousness at the expense of someone else's dignity. So I have tried to stop that shit. Professional organizations, of course, are a different matter. But I'll admit that I still judge people for using terrible English in work communication, unless English isn't their first language.
Oh, but hey, sometimes clarity isn't the point. I'm thinking the Benji chapter in The Sound and the Fury. Confusion was the point.
I was just listening to a Slate podcast (yes, I listen to a lot of podcasts!) about some major institution accepting "they" and "their" to represent individuals. It was not clear to me if they were speaking of the generalized singular (I just made up that term) or if they were speaking of cases where the subject did not identify with a single gender.
