Lange girl posters - Deb Armstrong

[Tony S]

I am sure that no where in any of their contracts it was written that they had to pose.

Come on, Phil, you're smarter than that. Exploitation that happens to women as they try to navigate their career paths isn't generally written into their contracts. That's part of what makes it insidious. Did you see Thursday's NYT piece I posted in the wine thread, about extensive sexual harassment and assaults in the sommelier community? There was nothing in the exam rules saying that if you were a woman you had to sleep with the examiner if you wanted to pass.

How is a lange poster sexual harassment?

n the age of me too, not one of these former Lange models has spoken out that they have been exploited.

I'm not saying that there was or was not sexual harassment of the women in the posters. I have no insight into those specifics. What I AM saying is that it's obtuse to assume that if a woman who, as part of her career, does something public with her body that is clearly aimed at titillating heterosexual men, she must have done it for her own jollies if it wasn't explicitly written into her contract.

 

[Wasatchman]

I'm not saying that there was or was not sexual harassment of the women in the posters. I have no insight into those specifics. What I AM saying is that it's obtuse to assume that if a woman who, as part of her career, does something public with her body that is clearly aimed at titillating heterosexual men, she must have done it for her own jollies if it wasn't explicitly written into her contract.

Good you clarified. It's entirely possible those lange models purely participated because they were paid to do so and no other reason. That doesn't make it anywhere close to being a case of being exploited.

 

[Steve]

It's not about the girls in the posters, it's about the generation of young girls and boys who are constantly reminded that men are about power, intellect, accomplishment - women are about looks (oh yes and the other things are great too, but if you're hot, you're hot!)

Things are a bit better than they were then, but look at Tik Tok, if you can shake it baby, you're going to be popular.

 

[Steve]

 

[Wasatchman]

It's not about the girls in the posters, it's about the generation of young girls and boys who are constantly reminded that men are about power, intellect, accomplishment - women are about looks (oh yes and the other things are great too, but if you're hot, you're hot!)

Things are a bit better than they were then, but look at Tik Tok, if you can shake it baby, you're going to be popular.

Okay, but then as I said before, I'd put more energy fighting the image that all the modern female popstars are portraying versus stuff like the Lange add. Trust me, Lange has got nothing on Beyonce, etc in terms of cultural influence.

 

[crgildart]

This was a pretty good way to illustrate the perspective. If women treated men that way... or media portrayed men that way..

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Okay, but then as I said before, I'd put more energy fighting the image that all the modern female popstars are portraying versus stuff like the Lange add. Trust me, Lange has got nothing on Beyonce, etc in terms of cultural influence.

Yeah, we are worried about old posters while the kids we want to protect are listening to W.A.P.

 

[Rod9301]

Okay, but then as I said before, I'd put more energy fighting the image that all the modern female popstars are portraying versus stuff like the Lange add. Trust me, Lange has got nothing on Beyonce, etc in terms of cultural influence.

Exactly

 

[SBrown]

I guess I lied earlier, but this is great entertainment.

 

[Rainbow Jenny]

Indeed amusing, of men discussing and judging what women do with our bodies. Sounds too close to another topic...

i private messaged Deb on her FB posting yesterday that I felt unsafe commenting publicly. THAT‘S the problem: a hostile environment vs. where I know some real people here on this forum.

Don’t think she would mind me sharing her reply:

“Thank you for reaching out. I have heard from many women who have reached out the way you have. The elite skiing thread is telling and confirms the need for the video i posted. You take good care.”

 

[Wasatchman]

Indeed amusing, of men discussing and judging what women do with our bodies. Sounds too close to another topic...

Please expand on this if you care to. We're talking about the Lange add right?

 

[Tricia]

Indeed amusing, of men discussing and judging what women do with our bodies. Sounds too close to another topic...

I think its important that men are a part of the conversation. And in this thread I don't see men judging what we should do with our bodies as much as we are talking openly and learning from each other.

 

[crgildart]

I think its important that men are a part of the conversation. And in this thread I don't see men judging what we should do with our bodies as much as we are talking openly and learning from each other.

Having a daughter definitely changes the lens I look through some.

 

[markojp]

Almost regardless of what I think, it behooves me to listen to women's points of view on this. No doubt there will be differences of experience and opinion, but as the segment of the population most likely to be affected by male behavior, I can understand pretty much every trepidation expressed.

Indeed amusing, of men discussing and judging what women do with our bodies. Sounds too close to another topic...

i private messaged Deb on her FB posting yesterday that I felt unsafe commenting publicly. THAT‘S the problem: a hostile environment vs. where I know some real people here on this forum.

Don’t think she would mind me sharing her reply:

“Thank you for reaching out. I have heard from many women who have reached out the way you have. The elite skiing thread is telling and confirms the need for the video i posted. You take good care.”

FWIW, I've removed myself from that site 2 or 3 times. If there's a single FB ski site that's a complete buzz kill and almost enough to make any reasonably thoughtful skier consider quitting the sport, it's that one. There's nothing 'Elite' about the commentary. At all.

 

[David Chaus]

Lange posters..... yes, they got my attention back in the day. However, I have yet to own a Lange product. I guess it didn't work on me.

Secondly, that has nothing to do with how I evaluate skiers, ski equipment or ski resorts. Because I'm no longer a 15 year old hormonal teen.

As far as social media...<sigh> it's such a minefield, though apparently a necessary one for many people.

That said, I think that anyone who posts shaming comments about someone else's body should have to post similar pics of themselves.

 

[Wasatchman]

I hope @Rainbow Jenny can post about what she thinks is hostile. Disagreement doesn't have to be hostile. If I have contributed to her perception of a hostile environment, I'd like to know and understand the POV because that was not my intention nor does anything on here look hostile to me. Edit: and it would be valuable input going forward to try and appear less hostile if she is referring to any of my posts.

 

[Tricia]

I hope @Rainbow Jenny can post about what she thinks is hostile. Disagreement doesn't have to be hostile. If I have contributed to her perception of a hostile environment, I'd like to know and understand the POV because that was not my intention nor does anything on here look hostile to me.

That's kind of my thought.
I hope she can elaborate. Possibly the discussion on FB was different. I didn't see it.

 

[SBrown]

I think its important that men are a part of the conversation. And in this thread I don't see men judging what we should do with our bodies as much as we are talking openly and learning from each other.

Except most are not listening at all, they are replying with what they already think. That isn't a conversation. You know me, I am the last person to worry about dudes, I am perfectly happy with the T I T S thread, etc. God, I have so much to say but I just can't. @Steve did a damn good job of explaining my position on this in post 63. Perhaps some of you could ponder that for a minute or two without having to immediately reply with But Beyonce! But WAP! But this! But that! Fuck all that, as an athlete, I want athletes to be celebrated for their skills and smarts, not their boobs and butt.

FWIW, I've removed myself from that site 2 or 3 times. If there's a single FB ski site that's a complete buzz kill and almost enough to make any reasonably thoughtful skier consider quitting the sport, it's that one. There's nothing 'Elite' about the commentary. At all.

Yeah I got out of that one years ago. But comments everywhere are normally ridiculous, ugh. I value the "higher level" here.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

have I woken up in the 70's ?

 

[Wasatchman]

But Beyonce! But WAP! But this! But that! Fuck all that, as an athlete, I want athletes to be celebrated for their skills and smarts, not their boobs and butt.

My point on Beyonce was in response to a point someone was making about fearing a culture that puts too much importance on women's looks. My point is that popstars are far more influential on culture than stuff like the Lange advertising, and that female popstars are universally heavily including sex appeal in their image. And to the degree it is an issue, they should think how that might be even more of a problem than the Lange advertisement.

As far as athletes being celebrated for their skill, well LV's skills put her on the map. And her sex appeal certainly adds to her value as an endorser. So one could argue it's not taking anything away from her as an athlete, but it is adding to her value as an endorser.

If a US male skier was as successful at skiing as LV, he may not still not be as valuable as an endorser as LV. There is the sports side of the equation and the commercial side of the equation. One does not have to take away from the other but it's okay if we disagree on that. I don't have a problem with LV promoting her sex appeal and do not think it takes anything away from her athletic accomplishments but okay if we disagree.