Lange girl posters - Deb Armstrong

[Steve]

Good for you Deb.

 

[graham418]

That was then, this is now. Like so many other things, what was once acceptable is no longer so. We can't rewrite history, but we can learn from it.

 

[no edge]

So what would be appropriate? Just a picture of a boot?

Deb is right but lots of sports feature women's bodies and sensual side as promotional material. Can it be done in a way that is fair to all women? I think that Lange has moved away from this.

 

[James]

Not buying things are that different, or that Nike is so pure.

Linsey Vonn, 2010

 

[AmyPJ]

Old girls don't want to be objectified, either.

 

[crgildart]

Young girls put up posters too. Back then it was Robert Plant his shirt open and super tight jeans. Go check out the posters at Spencer Gifts.. Plenty of eye candy for teen girls there. Look at ads in media outlets teen girls frequent. They've got BTS in lots of things


Got to dig deeper in to Cosmo and other places to get the more sexy and suggestive ones but they are definitely out there..

 

[RobSN]

Not buying things are that different, or that Nike is so pure.

Linsey Vonn, 2010

View attachment 113642

Don't you just hate it if your lady friend gets stuck outside the helicopter with only a small furry thing to cover up. I know I do. (Actually, mildly serious statement - that must have been a warm day - I see no goose bumps!!!)

 

[Wasatchman]

It's interesting. The other side of the coin is there are definitely women athletes that actively promote their sex appeal to cash in on endorsement money. Kournikova, Sharapova, and even Vonn to some extent. Yet the female athletes doing this aren't called out on it the same way.

Sex Sells: Female Athletes’ Use of Instagram

by Lucy Shepherd We have all seen it, female athletes being used as sex objects to sell products, pictured on billboards in bikinis or sports bras, posed in passive positions, while their male coun…

cultureandcapitalismblog.wordpress.com

Sex appeal definitely sells. The question is when is it appropriate and when it is not is a blurred line in many cases.

Edit: the Nike 2010 ad posted above is an example. Nike is criticized on this thread but isn't Vonn complicit? She knows damn well her sex appeal makes her a more valuable endorser and is complicit via participation in whatever pushback you want to give the ad campaign.

 

[BMC]

I watched a video the other day - it may even have been linked on this site - where a current US ski team racer said she always wanted to ski Lange boots because she was inspired by the “Lange Girl” posters. I have to confess I was a little surprised. But my ”takeway” was that different people view the world differently.

So while I don’t think we will see a return to Lange Girl posters any time soon, and while I’m 100% respectful of Deb Armstrong’s viewpoint, I also recognise some women feel differently. Live and let live. Each can find their own path,

 

[neonorchid]

Not to derail but never heard of her so did a quick google search and, oh no -

"In the fall of 2004, Armstrong got bitten by a tick carrying the Borellia virus. “One weekend I rode my bike 200 miles and by Tuesday I was on life support,” she says. Suffering from Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS) and sepsis, she spent six days on a ventilator in a medically induced coma. Sidelined for the 2004–2005 ski season, she eventually recovered—but unusual symptoms lingered. “I smelled the drugs coming out of me for a year,” recalls Armstrong, who later wondered if she was “the same Deb.” (Studies show that one-third of people who survive an ICU experience suffer from PTSD.)


In 2007, daughter Addy was born. Armstrong and her partner moved to Steamboat, where Deb took a position as Technical Director of the Ski and Snowboard School. Soon she was lured back into the racing world as Alpine Director of SSWSC. The job—working directly with athletes, parents and staff; managing schedules and programs; fundraising and working with the city and the ski area—was demanding.


She started noticing behavioral changes, like agitation and irritability, confusion, trouble concentrating, and difficulty being with friends. At the same time, she also went through a separation. “Personally, I was barely making it,” she says. “I kept thinking that day-to-day life should not take this much energy.” A concussion in the fall of 2013 was the final straw. Even after the acute symptoms passed, she had to go home to rest at noon each day. That spring, after six years of running SSWSC, Armstrong stepped down. She restructured her job and her life, reducing stress where she could, but still not understanding her symptoms.


The New Reality


Last spring, she finally connected with neurologists at Stanford University for an exam and MRI and then with Dr. Pamela Kinder at Blue Sky Neurology in Aurora, Colorado. Kinder suspected that Deb, like many athletes, was underreporting the head trauma she had suffered over the years. “Today we know that there can be significant and damaging injury with no loss of consciousness,” says Kinder. Deb recalled a head injury in 1980 at age 14, and another in 1995, but surely there were other crashes along the way, and more soccer-ball headers than she could possibly count.


A SPECT scan revealed that Armstrong was suffering from the cumulative and long-term effects of Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), something much talked about in the NFL, but less acknowledged among ski athletes. Kinder credits Armstrong’s “Olympian brain”—especially adept at overcoming physical and emotional challenge—for the ability to maintain her previous immense work responsibilities while quietly coping with debilitating symptoms."

Debbie Armstrong | International Skiing History Association

After a storybook racing career, an Olympic champion finds a new calling in coaching—and liberation through a recent TBI diagnosis. BY EDITH THYS MORGAN I know the small box it’s in, but right now, I couldn’t tell you which large box the small box is in.” Deb Armstrong is talking about her gold...

www.skiinghistory.org

 

[tch]

Perhaps the most important part of this video was how DA mentioned that she saw a poster in the background during a video/zoom.
How many ski shops, repair shops, garages, etc. sport this kind of imagery?

Lots of folks claim "Oh, it's all just in fun" or "my shop; my choices". But in fact, displaying posters of ads/images like this in a public venue (and I'm not blind to how the ad folks continue to work sex appeal to both genders) send messages. And one of them is that "yes, I'm aware this is a sexist image...and I'm just sexist and bumptious enough to refuse to do anything about it".

I can't imagine any self-respecting shop that would continue to display these outdated images.

 

[raytseng]

Not to derail but never heard of her so did a quick google search and, oh no -

"In the fall of 2004, Armstrong got bitten by a tick carrying the Borellia virus. ...[/URL]

This is possibly the lamest take to add to this thread. Instead of the topic and points, you're making a literal ad-hominem response?
Are you implying she's brain damaged so the entire position and everything she says is therefore suspect/irrational? I don't want to assume that was your intent, but that's the subtext of what I'm getting from your post, come on man.

 

[cantunamunch]

The video makes more confusion than it points up.

"Female athletes these days are a different breed - they're skillful and they're powerful and they beat boys and they beat men" - Except they are not even allowed on the same courses. Put women racers on the Streif (again) and I might start believing that confusion stems from advertising instead of from skiing. Andrea Mead Lawrence could race on it - but it's too much for modern female athletes? Is it advertising that made that message? Or ski industry bureaucrats?

More confusion from the video:

"And everybody has the right to make whatever decisions they want to make". OK. I'm on board with that. But then, 11 seconds later "Every decision that is made lives within a greater context". That is mixed messaging there. Sure you have the right to make whatever decisions you want to make - and you will be judged on it 50-60 years later.

 

[Wasatchman]

That was then, this is now. Like so many other things, what was once acceptable is no longer so. We can't rewrite history, but we can learn from it.

What have we learned?

 

[graham418]

Time was that any construction trailer you went into had a calendar from some equipment rental company sporting different topless women posing with construction tools. Stihl had a very glossy one, a little more tasteful. You haven't seen those in years, not since women started to have a presence in construction.
Pirelli had a very desirable calendar, that was extremely hard to come by. I don't know if they still produce it

 

[Wasatchman]

Time was that any construction trailer you went into had a calendar from some equipment rental company sporting different topless women posing with construction tools. Stihl had a very glossy one, a little more tasteful. You haven't seen those in years, not since women started to have a presence in construction.
Pirelli had a very desirable calendar, that was extremely hard to come by. I don't know if they still produce it

I'd argue there is not much difference in today's culture other than you don't flaunt sex appeal in the workforce.

A huge part of the Kardashian empire is sex appeal and they appeal to a women demographic even more than men.

 

[SBrown]

I don't really want to get into this, because I've said what I think before, but don't conflate models and actresses and rock stars with athletes in this discussion. It's about ski boots, not jewelry and sex tips.

 

[Wasatchman]

I don't really want to get into this, because I've said what I think before, but don't conflate models and actresses and rock stars with athletes in this discussion. It's about ski boots, not jewelry and sex tips.

Sex appeal is still rampant to sell a whole variety of stuff. Lots of female athletes actively promote their sex appeal (see my earlier post that had a link related to Instagram). It is what is. To change the culture requires a change by both genders which i don't think is happening.

 

[KevinF]

Maybe I've been going to the wrong ski shops, but I've been to pretty much every one in NH, VT and MA over the years...

However, the only times I can remember seeing "Lange girl" posters have been scanned in images online that are generally found / brought up because this discussion comes up. There are apparently "new" versions of these featuring Lindsey and Julia Mancuso and I'm sure others -- again, the only reason I know they exist is because I've seen scanned in versions in previous year's discussions of this same topic.

i.e., I have NEVER, in nearly 30 years of skiing, seen a physical version of these posters.

 

[Wasatchman]

i.e., I have NEVER, in nearly 30 years of skiing, seen a physical version of these posters.

Perhaps not commonly seen in posters but common in magazine print ads which is still seen as offensive by some (many?)

I do not think whether the ad campaign was primarily focused on posters versus printed magazine ads is a significant nuance to what Deb Armstrong and others are getting at here.