In the gym

[kimmyt]

Fingers crossed. Er. Toes crossed? Fingers take so long to fully heal =/

Yeah the last one was 8 weeks, but I'm hoping that this one will be shorter since I think I caught it earlier and didn't play the 'I think I can still climb on it if I just climb easy' game.

 

[Monique]

I finally saw my trainer after far too long! We talked strategy (I'd like to train for a deadlift competition next year; he's new to training for power lifting, but game) and form and whatnot. It was good.

Here's what came out of it:

* He said that the higher rep sets are generally for endurance and to some extent muscle growth (ie, body builders would do more like 12 reps). This is consistent with what I'd read. The idea was that several months of 10 rep deadlift sets would give me a good baseline for what's to come. Starting next week, I'll be doing fewer reps per set. Generally speaking, the plan is for cycles of four weeks of intense training, followed by an easier week, then the next cycle.

* Low weight / high rep: He said that it's a tradeoff. He said that low weight / high rep is certainly safer, but that I am willing to trade a certain degree of safety for performance. Honestly, as picky as he is about form, I think I'm in good hands safety wise.

* I need a lifting belt! Eventually. I will train without it, but I'll need it for the big one rep stuff.

* He's going to have me do mock competitions occasionally, so we can work on figuring out the best strategy for choosing the weight I'll lift.

* For now, I want to stick with a normal grip to work up my strength, and he agrees. For the really big lifts of the future, he suggested we can work on a hook grip.

We worked on deadlift technique today, so no big lifts, just 165. I relax my upper back between lifts. He says that would be fine on lowering if I were doing my last rep, and is very safe, but for now he wants me to perfect the "touch and go" - which is somewhere between a bounce (too fast) and resetting for every rep (too slow). And don't let my upper back relax from the start to the end of the set. I was pretty wobbly making these changes, but slowly getting better. But aside from all that - he called my deadlift form (prior to the change) "crisp," which is a pretty nice thing to hear.

My physical therapist had assigned me dumbbell presses, but my shoulder didn't like them. So my trainer modified these - I used an incline bench, but just one notch short of the max, still pushing the dumbbells vertically. This was pain-free for small weights.

And we worked on squats. Front squats hurt my shoulder because of how you have to "shrug" forward. We tried a modification with two kettlebells instead, but it still didn't feel great. He was leery of a regular (barbell) squat for my shoulder, but I assured him that the motion actually was the kind of stretching that I'm supposed to be doing, anyway. So I did some baby squats, very light weight. He showed me that if I only step a few inches back from the J cups holding the bar, I can tell if I'm leaning too far forward in the squat - the bar will hit on the way up! He was correct.



I don't remember if I mentioned before, but there will be a deadlift setup in my garage within I think the next month. It should make getting those sets in a lot easier. Deadlifts + rest take a lot of time!

I'm eying a women's bar (25mm / 15kg) for home use ... ponder ponder ...

 

[Dwight]

@Monique, I would say you are in good hands. Go get it.

 

[luliski]

I was allowed to start swimming again in August, and hadn't made it in to the gym since then. But I had a few complications with my foot and am out of the pool for a few days, so I went to the gym. I'm doing physical therapy there twice a week now, so I hope that will keep me doing my strength training. It felt good, I just have to remember that when I'm lazy about going.

 

[no edge]

Aside from whether the approach is valid, my hat's off to anyone who can do it. Don't think I have it in me.

It works very well from where I can observe. Inflammation is flaring up in my age group. I have seen some pretty amazing results, plus my own.

But you are correct. Paleo is sort of all or nothing and it requires dedication. I had to plan my meals - not how much but what was for lunch. This is not about calorie counting... the weight will come off. It is definitely worth a try, if you are older and trying to get into shape.

 

[Monique]

@Monique, I would say you are in good hands. Go get it.

Oh, yes. Chris is good people.

I happened to speak to a massage therapist today who had another observation about high rep lifts to start - tendon strength. As I know from rock climbing, muscle strength increases much more rapidly than tendon strength, which can easily result in injury. She said that by starting off with a few months of lower weight, I'm in a much better position regarding tendon health.

 

[TexasStout]

Oh, yes. Chris is good people.

I happened to speak to a massage therapist today who had another observation about high rep lifts to start - tendon strength. As I know from rock climbing, muscle strength increases much more rapidly than tendon strength, which can easily result in injury. She said that by starting off with a few months of lower weight, I'm in a much better position regarding tendon health.

Former powerlifter here. Your trainer is correct in emphasizing form and heavier weight for less reps on deadlift. Doing more reps with less weight can lull you into doing them quickly and come up out of bottom position without proper form. It doesn't take a lot of weight combined with improper positioning to strain your lower back. I know from experience.

Higher reps are for bulking muscle, while lower reps with heavier weight are for building muscle strength as well as tendon strength.

As for what your trainer said about cycles, I'd increase the length of the cycles to six-eight weeks, instead of four. Also, I used to only deadlift once per week in order to give lower back time to recover.

 

[Monique]

As for what your trainer said about cycles, I'd increase the length of the cycles to six-eight weeks, instead of four. Also, I used to only deadlift once per week in order to give lower back time to recover.

Were you able to lift more weight over time, only doing it once a week, or was that maintenance ?

 

[TexasStout]

Were you able to lift more weight over time, only doing it once a week, or was that maintenance ?

Definitely. Started deadlifting 225 at 160 bodyweight. Four years later, was doing 560 at 181 bw. I was much younger then, in my 20s. Gave it up for awhile, picking it back up in my late 30s and did over 500 after just a few months training.
Thing is, lower back is easy to strain and recovers slower than most muscle groups.
Key for me making gains was having strong legs from doing squats and leg presses more than anything. Those exercises i would cycle also, but would do twice per week- one heavy day and one light day.

 

[Monique]

Definitely. Started deadlifting 225 at 160 bodyweight. Four years later, was doing 560 at 181 bw. I was much younger then, in my 20s. Gave it up for awhile, picking it back up in my late 30s and did over 500 after just a few months training.
Thing is, lower back is easy to strain and recovers slower than most muscle groups.
Key for me making gains was having strong legs from doing squats and leg presses more than anything. Those exercises i would cycle also, but would do twice per week- one heavy day and one light day.

The 500 number is obviously not a good comparison for me (I wish!), but excellent info. Thanks.

 

[kimmyt]

@Monique obviously I don't powerlift or lift heavy but I was lifting for a while using a standard PL type program using the major 4 lifts and I did notice that most of the programs I was looking at don't have you DL more than once a week as @TexasStout said. I was worried you would mess something up in your back DLing more often, you really don't want to add a disc injury into everything (not that you don't have good form but if you're pulling heavy weights then you just need to be extra mindful of avoiding injury). I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want to sound like a worrywart but since @TexasStout mentioned it I thought I'd chime in.

On a completely different but not that different note, I did my first leg day in months and months two days ago. Good news: running the same workout I felt much stronger and was able to complete it without dropping sets or reducing reps and I even added 5 lb to my squat (its not my max weight, as its for endurance/volume, but its 5lb heavier as a starting weight). Single legged stuff like cheater pistol squats (using TRX straps for support) were way easier so I'm guessing my core is stronger. Bad news, for the last two days I've been walking around like I just got off a horse. And my 2yo seems to realize that I can't move very fast so she is running away from me every time she misbehaves which results in me limping after her halfheartedly while in extreme pain. And I have to take stairs to do anything in my house. So thats fun.

Leg DOMS is the worst DOMS.

 

[Monique]

@Monique obviously I don't powerlift or lift heavy but I was lifting for a while using a standard PL type program using the major 4 lifts and I did notice that most of the programs I was looking at don't have you DL more than once a week as @TexasStout said. I was worried you would mess something up in your back DLing more often, you really don't want to add a disc injury into everything (not that you don't have good form but if you're pulling heavy weights then you just need to be extra mindful of avoiding injury). I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want to sound like a worrywart but since @TexasStout mentioned it I thought I'd chime in.

Okee doke.

I'm going to go with the radical choice of trusting my trainer on this one (not that he's told me how often I'll be doing deadlifts, anyway). I'm *not* trying to follow along with a generic internet program or make up my own training regimen.

 

[TexasStout]

Okee doke.

I'm going to go with the radical choice of trusting my trainer on this one (not that he's told me how often I'll be doing deadlifts, anyway). I'm *not* trying to follow along with a generic internet program or make up my own training regimen.

Whatever routine you choose, just be cognizant of the fact that doing heavy squats and deadlifts will make you tight and result in less range of motion. Stretching your legs and hips right after and the next couple days after is vital to avoid injuries.

 

[Monique]

Whatever routine you choose, just be cognizant of the fact that doing heavy squats and deadlifts will make you tight and result in less range of motion. Stretching your legs and hips right after and the next couple days after is vital to avoid injuries.

*nod* I have an alarming array of stretches and implements of torture.

 

[Monique]

So, update. After switching to touch and go from resetting (I know there are tons of opinions pro and con on this one - again, gonna defer to my trainer!), my back started hurting. Chris checked it out and saw that I was angling my body - my feet were in the right position, but everything else was askew. I could manage each lift properly when resetting, but not with TnG. So we're doing an MAT session next week to see if we can get on the right path there. In the meantime, 85 lb deadlifts.

I did find that closing my eyes seemed to help my alignment. I could focus on how my body felt, rather than trying to gauge my alignment visually. Interesting, because I've been in the habit of using my eyes because I didn't trust my proprioception. I'm just a hot mess!

The same alignment issue plagues my squats, though it has less impact there. Sticking to light weights as well. Meh.

Pretty sure all of this can be traced back to the ACL injury and surgery. I had a different type of alignment issue a few months ago. Whackamole. It's frustrating. But I tell myself it's good to find these things, and obviously necessary to get it right on light weights before pushing to heavier ones.

Chris introduced me to "good mornings." I don't think I'd ever done those before, but he said my form was great. I suspect this stems from the one million Romanian deadlifts I did during rehab.

Oh, and I can do presses without shoulder pain, though even the 35lb bar gets pretty heavy by the third set. And I can do pushups on rings without shoulder pain - I step forward a bit to make it a little lighter, and my arms need to be at a slight angle out - not next to my body and not at a right angle, but somewhere toward the middle. Anyway, both of these are pretty exciting!

And I was supposed to do leg lifts while hanging from a pullup bar, but it KILLED the backs of my arms. My triceps apparently require stretching. I've had this sensation before, when climbing and reaching really high. It feels like something is going to rip. So now I'm just hanging with my feet touching so that I can slowly stretch that out. On the plus side, I was totally able to do the actual leg lift, which surprised me.

Anyway, all things considered, not a terrible session. I'm bummed about the deadlift/squat setback, but I knew something was jacked, and it's good to have someone who can identify the issue and work with me on fixing it.

 

[Lorenzzo]

So, update. After switching to touch and go from resetting (I know there are tons of opinions pro and con on this one - again, gonna defer to my trainer!), my back started hurting. Chris checked it out and saw that I was angling my body - my feet were in the right position, but everything else was askew. I could manage each lift properly when resetting, but not with TnG. So we're doing an MAT session next week to see if we can get on the right path there. In the meantime, 85 lb deadlifts.

I did find that closing my eyes seemed to help my alignment. I could focus on how my body felt, rather than trying to gauge my alignment visually. Interesting, because I've been in the habit of using my eyes because I didn't trust my proprioception. I'm just a hot mess!

The same alignment issue plagues my squats, though it has less impact there. Sticking to light weights as well. Meh.

Pretty sure all of this can be traced back to the ACL injury and surgery. I had a different type of alignment issue a few months ago. Whackamole. It's frustrating. But I tell myself it's good to find these things, and obviously necessary to get it right on light weights before pushing to heavier ones.

Chris introduced me to "good mornings." I don't think I'd ever done those before, but he said my form was great. I suspect this stems from the one million Romanian deadlifts I did during rehab.

Oh, and I can do presses without shoulder pain, though even the 35lb bar gets pretty heavy by the third set. And I can do pushups on rings without shoulder pain - I step forward a bit to make it a little lighter, and my arms need to be at a slight angle out - not next to my body and not at a right angle, but somewhere toward the middle. Anyway, both of these are pretty exciting!

And I was supposed to do leg lifts while hanging from a pullup bar, but it KILLED the backs of my arms. My triceps apparently require stretching. I've had this sensation before, when climbing and reaching really high. It feels like something is going to rip. So now I'm just hanging with my feet touching so that I can slowly stretch that out. On the plus side, I was totally able to do the actual leg lift, which surprised me.

Anyway, all things considered, not a terrible session. I'm bummed about the deadlift/squat setback, but I knew something was jacked, and it's good to have someone who can identify the issue and work with me on fixing it.

Try not to be bummed. Going up in weight, losing form and them having to go back down to correct that is normal. You have a good trainer, he'll likely find exercises that address weaknesses holding you back, i.e. triceps. A good mindset is form is the goal, weight is secondary. You're doing great. Fun reading about your progress.

 

[Monique]

Try not to be bummed. Going up in weight, losing form and them having to go back down to correct that is normal. You have a good trainer, he'll likely find exercises that address weaknesses holding you back, i.e. triceps. A good mindset is form is the goal, weight is secondary. You're doing great. Fun reading about your progress.

Thanks! It helps to read that this is normal. Not sure if I'm just boring everyone to tears / making it all about me. I also freaked out a little about the back pain, but today it is much better, at least 90% of where it should be. I have a wonderful microwavable heating pad and an inversion table. I'm pretty sure I'll be spending a lot more on chiro in the next year, too.

I'm researching powerlifting belts right now. Chris wants me to get one ASAP. Looks like lead time is often pretty long. But OMG so many options and considerations. I'm thinking a 3", 10mm belt, single prong. Maybe Pioneer. I don't have any friends who do this stuff seriously, but I have a friend who owns a gym, and one of the employees is into it, so I'm going to try to meet up with him - and they have some belts for sale there, though probably not quite what I want. It seems crazy to go get a huge leather belt, but on the other hand, my goal is to compete - so I might as well get one and get used to it, break it in. Everything I've read says that it's purely for increasing max lift, not to think it will make you safer.

And to your point - I agree, good form is critical. My intent with the competition is just to give me incentive to stick with the gym habit so that I can see how far I can get if I really work at it. Back pain sucks. I don't want to hurt myself, either short term or long term. My MIL has terrible, constant back pain, on pain killers all the time but it doesn't really fix it. It's been decades. I don't want that.

I did ask about the frequency of deadlifts, and the answer was basically "it depends on what part of the training you're in." A lot of my days will not be particularly heavy; other days will be. Rest accordingly. Makes sense to me.

Sadly, my garage deadlift setup (and eventual full gym) is going to be more work than anticipated. Apparently my garage is sloped. Not enough to notice till all the stuff was cleared out and we really started looking. I have visions of my bf's bar loaded up to 425 and going rolling out the door, down the slope of the driveway, and rolling right on through whatever's in its path. It looks like we'll have to build a shimmed wooden platform rather than just putting down some stable mats.

I have my eye on a women's barbell from Rogue. Also their adjustable bench with the decline sit up attachment. I do 55* sit ups on that at the gym. But the price makes my eyes water. Eventually if all goes as planned and bf moves in, I'll have a full gym, but that'll be maybe the spring - and anyway, he doesn't have the nifty decline sit up attachment, just the lame standard decline bench that doesn't go as steep.

I asked about grip strength. Chris said really the best way is to climb. Good thing my gym is a rock gym!

 

[Lorenzzo]

That's interesting about his suggestion for grip strength. We've got a crew of maybe 8-9 women powerlifters at one of my gyms. The owner is a woman who competed. When I see them sometimes I think of you.

As you train you may find muscle pain or tightness has little to do with the muscle from which it's emanating. Serious training recruits nearby or even all muscle groups whereas otherwise it can be more localized. When I get back tightness it's almost always coming from tight calves recruiting through my core and not the back. The more your core gets used to engagement the more wacky things like that can happen. Good you're doing stretching, I hate it and have partially dedicated my workout life to finding ways to avoid it while not tempting injury. Better to just stretch really.

 

[Monique]

That's interesting about his suggestion for grip strength. We've got a crew of maybe 8-9 women powerlifters at one of my gyms. The owner is a woman who competed. When I see them sometimes I think of you.

As you train you may find muscle pain or tightness has little to do with the muscle from which it's emanating. Serious training recruits nearby or even all muscle groups whereas otherwise it can be more localized. When I get back tightness it's almost always coming from tight calves recruiting through my core and not the back. The more your core gets used to engagement the more wacky things like that can happen. Good you're doing stretching, I hate it and have partially dedicated my workout life to finding ways to avoid it while not tempting injury. Better to just stretch really.

I've noticed my calves getting tight, actually. I'll focus on those more.

I try really hard to make time for stretching. It's definitely what falls off the schedule first, though. My ortho said that he expected to see me again because my shoulders just don't have space - so fear of surgery has motivated me to do a lot of stretching and opening exercises. Specifically, lying on a foam roller lengthwise with my arms extended in "cactus" shape. Then there's the fear of skiing pain. I love hot yoga, but my preferred instructor's classes are at terrible times for me. Maybe I can get there this Sunday ... hmm ...

 

[Monique]

That's interesting about his suggestion for grip strength.

I find that deadlifts develop calluses at the base of my fingers, whereas climbing develops them just below the final segment - which is also about where my fingers give out. So I guess it makes sense.