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Dwight

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Anyone know any chest exercises that do NOT involve pushing from the shoulder? I tried a fly machine and that was OK, felt pretty good. The trainer had me try a independent shoulder press machine. and it didnt work so well. The right was crunchy and popping with a massive 30 lb on it. I dunno, keep pushing light weight?
Both shoulders are not great from years of free climbing poles and other dumb stuff. The right was locked up after being in a sling for 12 weeks after a MC accident and it has never been as good as the left. I have never been a bench press guy anyway, but I still need to do something. OR if anyone has experience, will pushing through some free the shoulder up? It is farther than the PT's told me I would get after the accident as in range of motion, just pushing with it hurts.

Does @Brian Finch do remote PT?
 

Andy Mink

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I did a wall sit for 20 seconds today. Should be good to go. :daffy:
 

Monique

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I hit two full sets (10 reps) of 185lb deadlifts today! Letting myself go up a bit next time. That should be ... fun.
 

Monique

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At the ortho doc today for a shoulder check-in. I told him that I have a trainer, and the ortho doc said that, I think because of my age, I should be telling my trainer "low weight, high rep."

This smells like BS to me. I'll be seeing my trainer next week, and I know that he is on top of the cutting edge research for all things fitness - but in the meantime, what sayeth the peanut gallery?
 

Corgski

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At the ortho doc today for a shoulder check-in. I told him that I have a trainer, and the ortho doc said that, I think because of my age, I should be telling my trainer "low weight, high rep."

This smells like BS to me. I'll be seeing my trainer next week, and I know that he is on top of the cutting edge research for all things fitness - but in the meantime, what sayeth the peanut gallery?

I'll assume that we are still talking about anaerobic exercise here and not prancing around with some pink dumbbells . You can build muscle with low loads and high reps as long as you train close to failure. High reps (15+) to failure is miserable - that is when nausea starts becoming a normal part of training. Some of the hard core hypertrophy guys like to train like that, personally my tolerance for suffering has its limits.

I have tendinopathy issues and lower reps (5) with higher loads works better for me. I would prefer to train in the 8-10 rep range but my tendons are more inclined to object.

Maybe for your shoulder a higher rep range might be appropriate, I have no idea. The high rep ranges can give you the muscle growth but not the neural adaptations that higher loads will give you, but you can always add that later. I think the answer lies in understanding your body and the different training modalities and determining what works for you.
 

Andy Mink

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I suggest starting a little heavier with as many reps as necessary to lighten the weight. Then do it with the other arm. Repeat until it hurts or you can't feel anything, whichever comes first. :D
20180913_174155.jpg
 

Monique

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I'll assume that we are still talking about anaerobic exercise here and not prancing around with some pink dumbbells . You can build muscle with low loads and high reps as long as you train close to failure. High reps (15+) to failure is miserable - that is when nausea starts becoming a normal part of training. Some of the hard core hypertrophy guys like to train like that, personally my tolerance for suffering has its limits.

I have tendinopathy issues and lower reps (5) with higher loads works better for me. I would prefer to train in the 8-10 rep range but my tendons are more inclined to object.

Maybe for your shoulder a higher rep range might be appropriate, I have no idea. The high rep ranges can give you the muscle growth but not the neural adaptations that higher loads will give you, but you can always add that later. I think the answer lies in understanding your body and the different training modalities and determining what works for you.

Yeah, for my upper body I buy it. But he seemed to be saying in general, as you get older (I'm 40! geez!), you should go low weight, for any exercise, and I'm not buying it.

Then again, my trainer has me doing 10 rep sets for deadlift, which also seems crazy. I need to ask him about that. I tend to just go along with what he says and then later wonder why. But I always feel stronger and more capable when following his workouts ... then I hurt myself doing something more outdoors-y and have to start from scratch.

I only prance around with pink dumbbells when I'm doing PT. Amazing how hard it can be to lift a 3lb dumbbell in certain positions.

I suggest starting a little heavier with as many reps as necessary to lighten the weight. Then do it with the other arm. Repeat until it hurts or you can't feel anything, whichever comes first. :D View attachment 53349

Too bad I don't like beer =/
 

Andy Mink

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CharlieM

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Gym? I hate the gym, would rather be outside. Have been doing a lot of cycling this summer. Doesn't hurt the bad knee! Just did 36 mile ride today with JimK and Laurel Hill Crazy.
 

Dwight

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At the ortho doc today for a shoulder check-in. I told him that I have a trainer, and the ortho doc said that, I think because of my age, I should be telling my trainer "low weight, high rep."

This smells like BS to me. I'll be seeing my trainer next week, and I know that he is on top of the cutting edge research for all things fitness - but in the meantime, what sayeth the peanut gallery?

Sounds like the otho is stuck in the dark ages.

https://jimwendler.com great trainer and workout template
 

Monique

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Sounds like the otho is stuck in the dark ages.

I feel like I will "like" stuff like this because it confirms what I want to believe.

But dangit. Lifting heavy objects is something I've seemed to be naturally fairly good at, unlike every other active thing I've ever done. Now I have a boyfriend who's very into lifting - okay, he's obsessed - which I find keeps me more motivated to actually go to the gym on a regular basis. (We'll see how that goes in the winter). In fact, it sounds like there will be a deadlifting setup in my garage in a matter of weeks. So ... yeah, I don't want to stop now! I want to see how far I can go.
 

Lorenzzo

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At the ortho doc today for a shoulder check-in. I told him that I have a trainer, and the ortho doc said that, I think because of my age, I should be telling my trainer "low weight, high rep."

This smells like BS to me. I'll be seeing my trainer next week, and I know that he is on top of the cutting edge research for all things fitness - but in the meantime, what sayeth the peanut gallery?
I'd say your doctor is short a few certifications your trainer already has. People argue about almost everything in weight conditioning but heavy is overwhelming consensus including people of your age range and much older than that.

Btw sounds as though your trainer is doing a really nice job as are you.
 

Dwight

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@Monique great for you. Lifting heavy doesn't have an age requirement and you are young. :)

Deadlifts are awesome! If you feel great and enjoy what you are doing, you don't need advice from people that say the opposite.
 

Corgski

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Sounds like the otho is stuck in the dark ages.

https://jimwendler.com great trainer and workout template

I'd say your doctor is short a few certifications your trainer already has. People argue about almost everything in weight conditioning but heavy is overwhelming consensus including people of your age range and much older than that.

80% of the time people suggest low weights high reps it is nonsense, at some point it becomes aerobic exercise, not strength training. But we have no idea what the ortho was referencing and why? Was he recommending a largely useless exercise regime or simply preferring an 8-15 range as opposed to 4-6? @Monique's 10 rep deadlifts can be considered high rep, low weight. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a higher rep range, some people may find it less hard on their joints, personally I find higher rep ranges aggravates my tendons.

I understand the history here, we have been though a time where serious strength training bordered on a taboo. Check out this 2011 video of Vonn.


I love the description underneath "Ever wondered what it takes to become an Olympic champion?" It's utter nonsense, but they were catering very carefully to popular perception of what real exercise is and what level of weights is appropriate (especially for a woman). Recent videos seem tend to be a little more open towards revealing the fact that ski racers may lift real weights. Just don't assume that everyone suggesting a higher rep range is pushing the above nonsense (though much of the time they are).
 
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Monique

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80% of the time people suggest low weights high reps it is nonsense, at some point it becomes aerobic exercise, not strength training. But we have no idea what the ortho was referencing and why, Was he recommending a largely useless exercise regime or simply preferring an 8-15 range as opposed to 4-6? @Monique's 10 rep deadlifts can be considered high rep, low weight. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a higher rep range, some people may find it less hard on their joints, personally I find higher rep ranges aggravates my tendons.

Good points. I didn't ask my doc for clarification. Absent any other comments from him, I drew my own conclusions from what seemed most likely.

I agree that my 10 rep sets for DL are in fact high rep, but I don't think that's what my doc had in mind. I just read something on that Jim Wendler site where someone said he wasn't able to increase his max for 1 rep using 5/3/1. The response was:

Lower your training maxes and get a bigger base. Best way to bench 500 is to bench 495x10.

That's bench press, not deadlift, but seems to indicate high rep has its place.
 

Corgski

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Good points. I didn't ask my doc for clarification. Absent any other comments from him, I drew my own conclusions from what seemed most likely.

I agree that my 10 rep sets for DL are in fact high rep, but I don't think that's what my doc had in mind. I just read something on that Jim Wendler site where someone said he wasn't able to increase his max for 1 rep using 5/3/1. The response was:

Lower your training maxes and get a bigger base. Best way to bench 500 is to bench 495x10.

That's bench press, not deadlift, but seems to indicate high rep has its place.
I suspect that the conclusions everyone is drawing are correct, just wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. People seem to be able to do a lot of damage to their shoulders with training.

Why higher reps can work: 4 reps put you at about 90%, 10 reps at about 75% of your 1 rep max. Work Ratio = (10x75)/(4x90) = 2.0833
In this case you have done more than twice as much work in the 10 rep set - high rep weight training usually ends up being a lot more exercise. It can be harder to get the same amount of exercise with lower reps which is why I would prefer to train in a higher range.
 

Dwight

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Not that you need more help from the peanut gallery. I have followed Dave Tate and Jim Wendler for lifting.
https://www.elitefts.com/ (Tate). When I have followed the 5/3/1 regime, I have rehabbed the strongest and had great results. I just usually quit come Jan. :(

I like simple but effective routines.

Time for the home gym with all Olympic weights.
 

Lorenzzo

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At the ortho doc today for a shoulder check-in. I told him that I have a trainer, and the ortho doc said that, I think because of my age, I should be telling my trainer "low weight, high rep."

This smells like BS to me. I'll be seeing my trainer next week, and I know that he is on top of the cutting edge research for all things fitness - but in the meantime, what sayeth the peanut gallery?
@Monique, I was giving my peanut gallery response assuming your doctor was making his recommendation based on age. As @Corgski points out if his basis was your medical condition then that's entirely different. Also, heavy lifting needs to be done properly to avoid either traumatic or longer term injury. Which means working with a qualified, certified trainer at least until technique is settled. With proper technique, low rep can be less stressful on the joints than high reps. It might be useful to know which certifications your trainer has. My gf is a trainer and has a bunch of them including geriatric, not that any of us are. Good trainers are really up on the research and are technique Nazis.
 

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