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How do you manage your budget?

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
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A little voice says - and what if you suddenly have an unexpected expense you can't afford? Your kid needs emergency health care and your insurance doesn't cover it? Maybe that's a bad example because hospitals will generally work with you. But there must be circumstances that are worse than debt, even at usurious interest rates.)
My kid is over thirty, but she's had the use of one of my cards since she was about twelve just for that reason. I have a much larger credit line than she does. And she's the adventure girl, so if she has issues on the adventure, there's something with a significant credit line to draw on. We can work out payment later. She has rarely needed it and always calls first, but I'm happier knowing she has that protection. I remember several times when I was younger being stranded with nothing (decades back when you needed to schedule phone calls overseas and arrange for bank transfers) that I could have used a faster response than what I got. And that's why I have multiple cards with me as well.
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
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Regardless, I'm finding it's quite an effort to adapt to a new financial picture. I still haven't adapted my understanding of what constitutes a "small" expense. I'm sure retirement has a similar effect, or job loss - although with job loss, I hope most of us could expect to return to prior income levels. But of course, that's not always true.
Yes, when I left my job to move to Montana, I went from a six figure job to no job and really was blowing through my savings at first. It takes a bit to really wrap your head around the fact that you have no money now. Now that SS has kicked in, I feel as rich as Midas after a decade of living on Amazon bucks from various gifts from my brother or a web site I help out on.
 

Seldomski

All words are made up
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@Varmintmist I totally get where you are coming from. I had a debit card only for many years. I got burned by the first CC I applied for - when I paid it off, they registered it as a credit but not actually a payment. So I had late fee charges even though they had the money well before the deadline. I knew many who were in trouble with CC. My parents basically told me they were evil... though now they use them for everything for the free flights.

I was very reluctant to get a new CC. The cards now let you schedule payments to the CC such that they post 4-8 weeks after you have bought something. Or even autopay the balance whenever it is due. I still login monthly to check the balance and see where the money is going. I then schedule the balance payment for a few days before it is actually due. I actually track it more closely than I ever did the debit cards because being late on a CC payment is very expensive.

CC gives me the luxury of time and some more flexibility in where my money is located. I can move funds after I bought something to cover the bill. This lets me keep more money in an interest bearing savings or money market account and minimize the balance in my checking without worrying about going under the minimum balance for an interest bearing checking/debit account. This only really comes into play for last minute vacation planning or medical bills. Still, it's nice to not worry about the specific balance in an account for these purchases.

A few years ago, we had someone steal our outgoing mail. They ordered new checks. They started cashing them. So we try to keep the balance low in checking and hide money in less accessible places. Places where it may take a couple days to transfer and lots of notices get triggered.

In my experience, the credit card companies are much more protective when it comes to fraud than the bank/debit card provider. Meaning, I am usually the one catching the bank/checking/debit fraud. The credit card company is the one who notices first when CC fraud happens.
 
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Monique

Monique

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A few years ago, we had someone steal our outgoing mail. They ordered new checks. They started cashing them.

Yikes! Were you able to get the money back? How much effort?
 

Seldomski

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Yikes! Were you able to get the money back? How much effort?

Whoever was doing it was cashing them at the local grocery stores. I think 2-3 checks went through for total of ~$300 or so. On top of that, we had late charges for the bill we mailed that never made it to the intended recipient.

Also the cost now of never mailing a check from home... we now always drop mailed checks directly into the big blue USPS containers.

I don't remember for certain, but I do think we were reimbursed for the checks that were cashed. The bigger hassle was closing the entire checking account since it was so compromised. All of the autopay services, direct deposit for salary, etc all had to be changed to secondary accounts. So sorting all of that out takes time and money, since we seem to miss something with each fraud event. The really critical payments (mortgage) come from our savings account since that seems to be the most well protected from fraud. I think that account has a limitation on wire transfers, something like 2-3 allowed per month.
 

Plai

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+1 for not using home mailboxes for mailing out checks. My credit union doesn't charge for writing online checks to my vendors. Most larger companies (power, gas, cable, phone, etc) are registered and electronic payments from my account to theirs are made. It's a wonderful thing, and I like the security system of the CU.

I've got a few family members that almost insist on checks from me, but I'm working on them to take venmo or PayPal.
 
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Monique

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Whoever was doing it was cashing them at the local grocery stores. I think 2-3 checks went through for total of ~$300 or so. On top of that, we had late charges for the bill we mailed that never made it to the intended recipient.

Also the cost now of never mailing a check from home... we now always drop mailed checks directly into the big blue USPS containers.

I don't remember for certain, but I do think we were reimbursed for the checks that were cashed. The bigger hassle was closing the entire checking account since it was so compromised. All of the autopay services, direct deposit for salary, etc all had to be changed to secondary accounts. So sorting all of that out takes time and money, since we seem to miss something with each fraud event. The really critical payments (mortgage) come from our savings account since that seems to be the most well protected from fraud. I think that account has a limitation on wire transfers, something like 2-3 allowed per month.

Ughh.


Recently, Fidelity insisted on mailing me several very large checks representing entire retirement accounts. Profoundly uncomfortable.
 

Sibhusky

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We've been only using the blue boxes at the post office for probably fifteen years. Even there, though, we had problems with a Netflix movie and a bill payment that must have been lost when they unloaded the box? Both items I distinctly remember mailing due to how horrible a blizzard was going on. Neither ever made it to their destinations. All I can think is the wind got them when they unloaded the box.
 

scott43

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I haven't written a cheque in 10 years.. :huh: I put everything on my credit card..$1200/mth in daycare..all the bills..the cashback is enormous.
 

KevinF

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I'm not sure I've seen the word uttered in this thread, but it's the underlying theme to a lot of the posts. Sacrifice! What are you willing to live with, or without? Yes, we'd all "like" to stay in slope side accommodations with a nice hot tub overlooking the slopes. Are we willing to sacrifice a ski vacation to get it? Or better yet, are we willing to work a high-stress, high-income job that we don't really enjoy for 48 weeks out of the year in order to enjoy that slope side condo for a week?

I've seen various financial blogs that preach the above and with more-or-less the same wording -- i.e., "sacrifice".

I don't deny the reality of the above -- i.e., most of us can't afford to do everything we'd want to do. The word "sacrifice" to me though has a darker or religious connotation. Blood sacrifices to the gods or something. Eeek!

I like thinking of it as gaining. i.e, I'm gaining a ski trip this year by skipping daily Starbucks. I'm gaining two ski trips this year by not needing slope-side lodging. I like focusing on what I'm getting, as opposed to "sacrificing" where you're focusing on what you're not getting. I'm sacrificing daily Starbucks to get a ski trip this year just sounds harder; the first thing is a reminder of what you're not getting as opposed to what you are gaining.
 

nay

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Healthcare "Insurance" is a misnomer. It's the only "Insurance" a consumer utilizes regularly. Your auto insurance doesn't pay for an oil change. Why does health insurance pay for a yearly check up? Do you look forward to using your auto insurance? Heck no. If you need to use that insurance you've had an incident. Life insurance? No, you certainly don't want to use that. ...but health insurance? Sure! Sign me up for that battery of tests. It doesn't "cost" me anything.

This is a poor analogy. Auto insurance is liability insurance covering injury to others. Try taking off your collision damage coverage - it’s so cheap there is no real point in removing it.

Healthcare is risk pooling no matter how you look at it. It can only be afforded by anybody in a pool where the vast majority of people are payers instead of heavy users. It is absolutely insurance in younger years where the risk of catastrophic occurance is low, but the economic risk of the event is very high. There is a reason that medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy filings in the U.S.

In older years, health insurance resembles more of a life insurance policy payout as consumption increases. There is nothing to figure out - we have a simple ability to pay into a system in younger years that statistically will pay back out in later years, or we can go back to the days where the elderly simply bore the ravages of aging without the benefit of consistent medical care.

It is a crisis as employer provided coverage and workers are well aware. The number one reason real wages have declined is skyrocketing healthcare costs. Healthcare premiums are in your salary and most of what people could receive as wage growth is being consumed in premium increases. This stagnation over decades is killing real economic growth.

The U.S. has a particularly ugly issue in that our politics tend to send regulatory issues to the point of greatest cost (health) to the benefit of economic “growth” numbers.

At the individual level, you should be spending around 25% of your budget on food vs. the U.S. average of around 8%. Food budgets correlate to sick care budgets, but when real wages are falling, the squeeze has to come from somewhere. My food budget is bigger than my mortgage.

Somewhere in there is a how we assess quality of life over quantity.
 

MattSmith

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I don't *quite* understand this art about "eating out of necessity." Maybe I misunderstand. I love going to a really nice restaurant and eating something that would be time consuming or tricky to cook for myself. But I also really enjoy a simple protein/veggie/rice meal. In fact, I crave that if I've been eating restaurant food too much.

Right - I can see where that's confusing. Perhaps "eating for purpose over pleasure" is a better way of phrasing it. In addition to loving a great meal in a nice restaurant, I'd plow though a lot of tasty take-out and convenience food. Living urban, it's easy to do. Best example I can offer is fuel for skiing. Sure, I'd like to pull up for lunch and easily spend $15 or $20 on lunch at the lodge. Instead it's usually turkey breast sandwiched between corn tortillas. (I agree GF bread is pretty terrible)

To your point, going simple protein and vegetables can also be enjoyable, especially after a lot of restaurant meals. It's your body telling you "that's enough!". So while I'd prefer my chicken and string beans to be sauteed in a hot wok with oyster sauce and delivered to my door, it's significantly more economical and healthy to grill and steam my own chicken and green beans. Aside from general job and life stability, it's been the single most significant financial shift I've experienced.

I've been trying to run numbers on my medical insurance. Yes, it's a largely employer sponsored plan, but still tricky.
Agreed. Overly tricky because overly complex. It's difficult to narrow down the different plans and options. The additional re-occurring pharma expenses you carry *could* be estimated along with Plan recommendations based on your expense profile. YMMV depending upon your Insurer's tool and capabilities. (Medicare covers this much better) Either way, you can end up spending a lot of time and effort that in the end is still a bit of a crap shoot. You have the right idea. Pay attention to Max OOP, see what applies to overall deductible, and look at the sticker price.
An additional consideration for the overall financial and health care puzzle are the HSAs. ESPECIALLY if your employer contributes dollars to the HSA. Never turn away "free" money. My HSA will hopefully be one of those "safety nets" for a significant medical event.

I also hear what you are saying about PT visits and lack of coverage there. Change is happening, slow as it may be. I may draw the ire of Physicians reading this post when I suggest more focus on non-traditional medicine. Please, please, please influence your Employer to support general Wellness programs and healing methods outside the definition of traditional Western medicine.
 

Lauren

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My kid is over thirty, but she's had the use of one of my cards since she was about twelve just for that reason. I have a much larger credit line than she does.

This brings up a whole new aspect of getting a credit card (and paying off monthly). My first card was basically a circumstance of necessity, if I wanted to buy a house. Before/during college most items were in my parents name, for exactly the reason you listed above, they had a much larger credit line. Fast forward to a few years later, I'm looking to get approved for a mortgage...no credit = no loan.

Recently, Fidelity insisted on mailing me several very large checks representing entire retirement accounts. Profoundly uncomfortable.

It's pretty incredible that we've gotten to a point in society where snail mailing important information can be equally or more unsettling than utilizing electronic means.
 

MattSmith

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This is a poor analogy
...well, it wasn't really an analogy. I described it as a "misnomer" so sort of making my point. Heath Insurance isn't really "Insurance". There are components of the product that insure us form a more significant financial impact, but if your statistic about US Bankruptcy filings are correct, it isn't working very well.

I'm not an Actuary, but I've worked with and around a fair number of those types. I generally agree with your assessment and description of the risk pool and how you pay in early and take out later. I believe the pool isn't large enough, there's not enough dollars currently flowing into the pool against the dollars flowing out. This is a significant contributor to the "crisis". This isn't surprising to anyone is it? We're finding the Boomer generation didn't put enough money into the pool commiserate to the money they're beginning to draw. Gen X wasn't large enough in terms of numbers to make up the gap (try as we did). More recently we allowed the Millennial generation a 4 year extension off of their parent's plans (4 years of crucial contribution period).

So we're pretty much just F'ed when it comes to health care. We should probably move further discussion to a different thread, but I'll close this out by absolutely agreeing with your last point. Quality over quantity of life. Let's measure value of life in two dimensions ( Fun x Duration ) rather than just the single dimension of Duration. I don't want to live to be 100, but I still want to be powder skiing at 70.
 

MattSmith

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I've seen various financial blogs that preach the above and with more-or-less the same wording -- i.e., "sacrifice".

I don't deny the reality of the above -- i.e., most of us can't afford to do everything we'd want to do. The word "sacrifice" to me though has a darker or religious connotation. Blood sacrifices to the gods or something. Eeek!

I like thinking of it as gaining. i.e, I'm gaining a ski trip this year by skipping daily Starbucks. I'm gaining two ski trips this year by not needing slope-side lodging. I like focusing on what I'm getting, as opposed to "sacrificing" where you're focusing on what you're not getting. I'm sacrificing daily Starbucks to get a ski trip this year just sounds harder; the first thing is a reminder of what you're not getting as opposed to what you are gaining.

You are absolutely correct Kevin. We are gaining opportunities more than making day to day sacrifices. That's was almost certainly my Christian upbringing subconsciously influencing my perspective.

...and not to get a spiritual on y'all, but aren't we truly blessed to be able to get out and have these experiences and adventures in the mountains? I'm at peace in the mountains and on the snow in a way that I'm not anywhere else in life.

<sigh> how many days until opening day?
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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An additional consideration for the overall financial and health care puzzle are the HSAs. ESPECIALLY if your employer contributes dollars to the HSA. Never turn away "free" money. My HSA will hopefully be one of those "safety nets" for a significant medical event.

Mine does kick in a bit, but I didn't think it was significant enough vs the other considerations. I'll take another look. Arrrgh!

I don't want to live to be 100, but I still want to be powder skiing at 70.

Amen.

...and not to get a spiritual on y'all, but aren't we truly blessed to be able to get out and have these experiences and adventures in the mountains? I'm at peace in the mountains and on the snow in a way that I'm not anywhere else in life.

Agreed. A friend says she's never seen me smile as big as I do when there's snow.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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's pretty incredible that we've gotten to a point in society where snail mailing important information can be equally or more unsettling than utilizing electronic means.


Banks have robust money transfer systems. there's also no arguing about my role in the process, or where something went wrong. Either it goes through, or there was an unprecedented attack on the system.
 

KevinF

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Banks have robust money transfer systems. there's also no arguing about my role in the process, or where something went wrong. Either it goes through, or there was an unprecedented attack on the system.

Maybe it's because I'm a software engineer by trade... i.e., I know how badly most software is written (except mine of course! My code is perfect! :rolleyes:), so while I rely on electronic banking transfers, I always check my balances after to ensure the transaction was actually completed. Gots to make sure the gremlins (and the hackers) stayed away.

My paranoia aside... in all my years, there has been exactly one electronic banking transfer that I have requested that somehow vanished into the Great Bit Bucket In The Sky. It certainly works better then the post office does.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Maybe it's because I'm a software engineer by trade... i.e., I know how badly most software is written (except mine of course! My code is perfect! :rolleyes:), so while I rely on electronic banking transfers, I always check my balances after to ensure the transaction was actually completed. Gots to make sure the gremlins (and the hackers) stayed away.

My paranoia aside... in all my years, there has been exactly one electronic banking transfer that I have requested that somehow vanished into the Great Bit Bucket In The Sky. It certainly works better then the post office does.

Oh, yeah - trust (barely) but verify.
 

Varmintmist

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You are absolutely correct Kevin. We are gaining opportunities more than making day to day sacrifices. That's was almost certainly my Christian upbringing subconsciously influencing my perspective.
It isnt sacrifice, its delayed gratification. I think that principle is in the bible, not sure, not a scholar. You can get the choco moco lattee with 8 shots of virgin tears for 10.00 every day, or get a Keurig on sale and make a cup of pretty good specialty coffee at home for under .50 except for once in a great while. Put the 9.50 in the bank and go on vacation with a extra 2 grand
 

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