Expectations of a shop for new pair of skis

[Doug Briggs]

Thanks @Monique and @Drahtguy Kevin . I'm glad you are happy with the results.

 

[graham418]

The local ski shop that I frequent does binding installation for free if the skis or bindings were bought there. If neither was bought there - $50 for binding install. As a pre delivery service they do a 'prep wax' as a matter of course on all skis they service. Some kind of machine waxing. They don't do any other kind of work on new skis unless requested

 

[Doug Briggs]

I handle a lot of new skis from different manufacturers where I work. For the higher end stuff, I regularly look at the tune and base in detail when I get them for mounting. Sometimes people ask for additional services, more than half don't. I'll let someone know if I think their new gear needs attention if they haven't asked for a New Ski Tune. For giggles, I like to try my new skis 'as is' unless there is something glaringly wrong with the tune.

Skis, particularly indie brands, can come with highly variable edge tunes and sometimes some pretty funky base treatment. Most often a poor base is the result of just running the skis over a belt sander and leaving them 'hairy'. Those skis usually are somewhat concave as well when they arrive. They are particularly hard to put back into proper tune without some serious belt sanding to take down the edges and p-tex.

Some skis come from the factory with an obvious coat of wax on them. Mostly these are race stock skis. All others come with some slick coating but not perceptible wax. I'd be interested to hear from someone in the know what manufacturers do to their skis before they leave the factory.

 

[Josh Matta]

with how bad some shops tuning services are, I would prefer they did nt touch my skis...

Hell I have been mounting my own binding for 4 years now....

 

[Jacques]

So I finally purchased a pair of Enforcer 100s paired with Look Pivot 14s. I have been skiing bonafides (I think the 2nd year of them) for several years now. I purchased the skis from my local ski shop in Vermont even though I could have bought the skis a bit cheaper on a pro form. I bought the binding separately and needed them mounted.

I was shocked as it seems like the shop didn't even prepare the base of the ski with fresh wax. They essentially just mounted the binding. Its my fault because I literally grabbed the skis and left without checking.

I was curious as to what folks expect to be done as far as tuning on a new pair of skis and if anything actually needed to be done to brand new skis. I know some people like their tips/tails to be detuned a bit.

I would like to start learning how to at least wax my own skis and then learn more about tuning. Can you mess up waxing your skis?

Can someone recommend a good starter kit to start waxing?

Tune and wax them well every time.

You can start slow, or just get everything you need. Get it all. https://the-raceplace.com/collectio...east-elite-ski-tuning-kit?variant=27673056263

Here is how to use that stuff.

 

[Ken_R]

And all of this is why I make sure @Doug Briggs gets a peek at my skis first thing. I trust him to tell me what needs to be done, and also what does not need to be done.

Where is he? My Monster 88's need some TLC.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I've never tuned a brand new pair of skis. Off the bench and on to the snow. Then about 10 days later, get them in for some work.

Unless.....first day things aren't right. And I've got to say that I've only ever seen that once. Not on my skis, but it was bad out of the box. It can happen.

Same. I buy my skis online now - though, recently, they bindings were mounted incorrectly and the skis had to be redrilled. It was a one and only time type situation with a normally awesome vendor. I take them to my local shop for mounting. Usually, I don't ask them to check anything other than the normal binding stress test. However, when I bought my son's GF skis (beginner) that had been sitting in a warehouse for awhile, I had them throw a true bar on just to be sure. They weren't flat (by quite a bit) so I told them to grind the base and fix that as best they could. He was shocked. Grind a brand new pair of skis? Yeah! They are not flat and this is my future daughter in law! I want her to LOVE skiing. Make them awesome!

 

[Doug Briggs]

Where is he? My Monster 88's need some TLC.

I work at A Racer's Edge in Breckenridge. I'm in T, W and Th nights most weeks. I'm in from 4 until I'm done. The shop's hours are 8 to 8, 7 days a week during winter. 'Benchmark' tunes include stonegrind, ceramic disc edge tunes and wax. This is the right tune for maintaining or returning your skis to excellent condition. I can't say they'll look like new in all honesty but they will ski like new. If you bring them in just ask and they'll put my name on the ticket.

 

[Wolfski]

@Doug Briggs knows his stuff

Every new ski should have the bases at least checked to see where its at for flatness, bevel and structure checked as some are coming out with bases that are top notch these days.
Rip down the sidewall so that the edges can be beveled and sharpened properly
Sharpen the edges.
A proper hot wax, a base is only new once and the more wax that you can get in there the better.

Now if a shop charges extra for all of those services and most will push it as they're an easy add on sale, pay it IMO as it has to be done, but no one should expect it to be thrown in.

 

[James]

For what you've said at the start. Maybe I'm used to being coddled in European consumer rights ( though perhaps not for much longer) but there is a concept of rejecting goods that are not fit for purpose. From what you are saying it is perfectly acceptable to sell a ski shaped object without it being fit for actual skiing. At that point I feel actual antipathy to the store.

Oh it's suited to skiing. Just not good skiing. Let's not forget the skis are likely produced in the EU. Several years ago Heads were notorious for horrible base tunes from the factory. Things can change after they're produced -layers move in the ski. Or they're not made right, according to your standards. But then they ship them off to the shops to sell them and the shop has to deal with it. So really they're passing the buck.

Years ago, I knew a guy who had worked in a good shop at the time. With boots they used to take them out of the box and check to see if the sole was flat. No, or little, wobbling on a flat surface. They had to give that up after awhile though because too many failed the test. It's hard to send that many back. You might not get more. So, that quality check went out the window.

It is not uncommon for tunes to be bad at the industry on snow evaluation. Where shops decide what to buy. Some when informed just keep sending it out that day. That tells you something.

The problem lies in the system. New skis should probably include a grind at the place of purchase. I say "probably" because there's a good chance the shop could make them worse. So then what?

Fwiw, absolutely the worst ski demo I've rented, and it was a slalom ski not a fleet rental, was in Switzerland. Absolutely horrible. Likely a huge base bevel and also no sharpness. As it happened that first afternoon was fog and very solid pistes so you actually wanted functional edges.

Then I switched to another. Went to tune it myself that night, and discovered the base was delaminating underfoot. Didn't want to waste time taking it back, so skied it the next day. Snow was soft and or powder so it was ok. Changed shops.

And you also have to factor in who can really tell the difference. Like, I know we all think we're WC racers..but..can we tell?? Dunno..

This is somewhat what supports the situation. Of course a new ski is good, it's new...
People may not know but blame the ski type, themselves etc. It can be hard to tell, ski or tune. People have sold skis they thought they couldn't handle when it actually wasn't the ski.
If one can't release an edge because of a bad tune, or it's very difficult to do, that's just basic. To go left then right one needs to do that.

 

[fatbob]

Let's be clear I'm not being some diva expecting a full WC race tune, my own fancy base structure and funky edge angles in the retail price of a ski.

But if a store is to have any value they ought IMV to be checking for out of spec errors in the goods they are supplying - not just unwrapping the plastic and calling it good. And yes if a ski is ridiculously edge high or whatever calling it out to the customer and either making it good or being prepared to return the skis. The store shrugging its shoulders and saying it's the manufacturer's problem not mine and passing that problem on to the customer is a store that doesn't deserve to stay in business IMV because it is adding NIL value.

& yep most minor problems probably won't get picked up but again not a particularly ethical way of trading.

I've had the awful tune problem at demos from Elan and Armada. The way the reps reacted to the negative feedback i.e. arrogantly implying it was becasue I wasn't a great skier mean those brands are poisoned for me for ever and it would take an EXCEPTIONAL experience with one of their products in the future to even consider them again.

 

[Monique]

I had Doug look over my new skis even though several people commented that Armada is known for good factory tunes. He confirmed - the factory tune was great, the edge angle appropriate.

Armadas are cheap for skis. If they can pull it off and even have a reputation for it, why can't other brands?

 

[Monique]

I've had the awful tune problem at demos from Elan and Armada. The way the reps reacted to the negative feedback i.e. arrogantly implying it was becasue I wasn't a great skier mean those brands are poisoned for me for ever and it would take an EXCEPTIONAL experience with one of their products in the future to even consider them again.

Hah, and immediately I get counter evidence! I guess they're not perfect after all ...

 

[James]

I've had the awful tune problem at demos from Elan and Armada. The way the reps reacted to the negative feedback i.e. arrogantly implying it was becasue I wasn't a great skier mean those brands are poisoned for me for ever and it would take an EXCEPTIONAL experience with one of their products in the future to even consider them again.

Was it a demo day for the public?
If so, that's pretty common. Customer is a moron. That's the default viewpoint. You're going to be out of brands quickly.

 

[DanoT]

with how bad some shops tuning services are, I would prefer they did nt touch my skis...

Hell I have been mounting my own binding for 4 years now....

I am curious, do you have a jig or jigs or do you mount your bindings freehand?

About 40 years ago I mounted Look-Nevada N17s freehand and ended up with the toe piece slightly off square. Fortunately the toe piece had set screw adjustable "wings" that compensated for my slight error. I have not mounted a binding myself since then.

 

[fatbob]

Was it a demo day for the public?
If so, that's pretty common. Customer is a moron. That's the default viewpoint. You're going to be out of brands quickly.

Elan was at SIA which is pretty poor. Armada was at a UK semiconsumer test.

 

[Jacques]

Hard to judge a ski on a demo day. One never really knows what the tune is, or if it's any good at all.
I guess if one knew how to read a true bar and did a good complete inspection, they might get some clue.
I have some Armada's and I like them just fine. I did a total tune on them before they ever hit the snow though to include a steel scraping of the insanely deep structure they came with.

 

[GregK]

This thread reminds me of what I do for a living which is high end car detailing and transforming the condition of even brand new cars. The expectation of taking delivery of a brand new $200k vehicle, you would expect it to be perfect when you pick it up brand new from the dealership. Afraid the reality is that even on those vehicles, the car cleaners get a max of 1-1.5 hours to clean the interior/exterior of that vehicle before the customer takes delivery. They never get leather conditioned, exterior clay barred, polished or waxed unless the customer requests it and it’s always extra $.
Most of my customers request the dealer not touch it at all as a rushed dealer job creates more work for me. I usually spend an average of 7-8 hours on a new car to bring it up to my level of “better than new.”

Nothing is done for free on a $200k car, so I’m afraid you’re lucky to get free binding installs on $600 skis. Haha

Your best bet is to learn how to check over skis yourself and how to do daily maintenance on them with the proper tools. I wax all my skis and check over the edges daily and there is always burrs/nicks to be attended to it seems. (Stupid fun glade runs....lol)
Huge sense of accomplishment knowing your gear is always performing at it’s best.

 

[cantunamunch]

This thread reminds me of what I do for a living which is high end car detailing and transforming the condition of even brand new cars. The expectation of taking delivery of a brand new $200k vehicle, you would expect it to be perfect when you pick it up brand new from the dealership. Afraid the reality is that even on those vehicles, the car cleaners get a max of 1-1.5 hours to clean the interior/exterior of that vehicle before the customer takes delivery. They never get leather conditioned, exterior clay barred, polished or waxed unless the customer requests it and it’s always extra $.
Most of my customers request the dealer not touch it at all as a rushed dealer job creates more work for me. I usually spend an average of 7-8 hours on a new car to bring it up to my level of “better than new.”

*Now knows whom to page when @LiquidFeet complains about her interior being perfume bombed again*

 

[DanoT]

At the shop where I work, if you buy skis and bindings then the mounting is free. Otherwise a binding mount is $30Cdn, infrared hot wax is $25 including finishing on a power roller brush/buffer. Power brush/buffer without the infrared hot wax (wax is just rubbed on) is $15 and not worth it because it does not last.