Expectations of a shop for new pair of skis

[Philpug]

My expectations is to have the job done right. While i don't deal with a shop to do my work, I have been in the situation on both sides. I have seen shops sell work that wasnt needed and I have seen shops completely miss obvious things like not having binding screws in all the way or wrong brake sizes. It comes down to. "You have one thing to do..."

 

[Chris Walker]

I wouldn't expect them to do a single thing other than mount the bindings unless we had specifically agreed to other services at the time of purchase. I would expect the mount to be free if I had purchased the skis and/or bindings there, but I would expect to pay for any other services, including wax. If they threw it in for free I would consider that above and beyond.

 

[James]

This thread reminds me of what I do for a living which is high end car detailing and transforming the condition of even brand new cars.

The expectation of taking delivery of a brand new $200k vehicle, you would expect it to be perfect when you pick it up brand new from the dealership. Afraid the reality is that even on those vehicles, the car cleaners get a max of 1-1.5 hours to clean the interior/exterior of that vehicle before the customer takes delivery. They never get leather conditioned, exterior clay barred, polished or waxed unless the customer requests it and it’s always extra $.

Most of my customers request the dealer not touch it at all as a rushed dealer job creates more work for me. I usually spend an average of 7-8 hours on a new car to bring it up to my level of “better than new.”

Wait, so if I get a new Ferrari, while I'm waiting in the show room they're cleaning the thing with a leaf blower?
That's it, going McLaren.
How much for the nice one??
Ok, give me the name of that detailer.

 

[fatbob]

Sounds like everyone is perfectly happy paying over the odds for a dealer to do a basic job beyond unwrapping the skis. Can't see why if that is the norm ANYONE buys B&M retail if they aren't price-matching cheapest online price.

The auto analogy is not conditioning the leather and buffing to an inch of its life but checking the wheels are bolted on securely and there aren't huge panel dents but is sounds like ski shops can't be bothered with that as a courtesy and everyone is fine with that. Caveat Emptor and all that

 

[fatbob]

Hard to judge a ski on a demo day. One never really knows what the tune is, or if it's any good at all.
.

Demo is the ONLY chance people have to judge a ski ahead of purchase. No wonder the hardgoods industry has huge problems.

 

[Jacques]

Demo is the ONLY chance people have to judge a ski ahead of purchase. No wonder the hardgoods industry has huge problems.

The other side of the coin is that the demo fleet may be well tuned and waxed. Then you buy a pair and wonder why they don't seem to handle like the ones you demoed.

 

[Philpug]

The other side of the coin is that the demo fleet may be well tuned and waxed. Then you buy a pair and wonder why they don't seem to handle like the ones you demoed.

There is also a big distinction between Demo. which should be referred to as a "sales tool" and an high performance rental which is for an advanced skier that might be on a vacation and wants something more than a typical rental ski. The former gets confused by the latter in most instances.

 

[GregK]

Honestly, a leaf blower/dedicated car blower is one of the best tools for drying and the reason I can clean/dry my vehicle in 8 minutes! The less you physically touch the vehicle, the less likely you are to scratch the vehicle. Have been using leaf blowers to dry vehicles for 15 plus years. So you should RUN to places that use them and choose to get a McLaren because you like the cupholders more.... haha
Actually specialize in detailing exotics and luxury cars so I'd be able to detail either exotic you choose!

 

[James]

Honestly, a leaf blower/dedicated car blower is one of the best tools for drying and the reason I can clean/dry my vehicle in 8 minutes! The less you physically touch the vehicle, the less likely you are to scratch the vehicle. Have been using leaf blowers to dry vehicles for 15 plus years. So you should RUN to places that use them and choose to get a McLaren because you like the cupholders more.... haha
Actually specialize in detailing exotics and luxury cars so I'd be able to detail either exotic you choose!

Hah! Well, at least I've learned something in this thread.

I will tell you... it's been a tough decision. I've decided to go with the Pagani in a lemon-lime metallic green.
I'm not sure how I feel about you assaulting it with a leaf blower. It's delicate.
Geez, I could derail this thread into car detailing as it's more interesting actually.

 

[GregK]

Agree that I'd rather have the thing I requested done right rather than them worry about adding "freebies" on. Went in for "just a base grind" for a super base high ski a few years ago as I have tools for everything else and they thought "it was fine" and did a horrible messy hot wax on them instead. Just went to another shop who couldn't believe how bad they were before properly grinding them flat.

This year had a local ski place mount bindings for me because how hard is that when you have a jig and I label exactly where on tape where my boot center is to be. One ski was mounted 1cm forward of the line and the other 2cm back of the line. Not kidding! Got them to order me in new skis and I watched over them for the 2nd mount on the new skis.

 

[Philpug]

@GregK feel free to start a thread in the Garage for detailing tips.

 

[GregK]

Hah! Well, at least I've learned something in this thread.

I will tell you... it's been a tough decision. I've decided to go with the Pagani in a lemon-lime metallic green.
I'm not sure how I feel about you assaulting it with a leaf blower. It's delicate.
Geez, I could derail this thread into car detailing as it's more interesting actually.

I've yet to do a Pagani but as long as it's under $4mil, I'm insured for that so you're good! haha

Modern engines and cars are very well sealed these days so its actually very hard to damage them by cleaning even with lower power pressure washers etc. Actually the larger issue with some of the older cars is letting water sit/get into certain engine areas without drying and that launched the use of leaf blowers/compressed air for drying engines. It worked so well in there that detailers like myself used beefier 12amp electric ones on the whole vehicle that now takes me less than 2 mins to dry including drying rear view mirrors, grills and head/tail light areas that like to drip water forever unless you use a blower. 90% of the water is off a the vehicle with a blower before I even touch it with a soft Microfibre. Now there are lots of heated air blowers specifically designed for drying cars. Customers go from "what do you have a leaf blower for" when I first unload my car at their place to "holy cow that works amazing!" when I used it to dry a properly prepared vehicle.

Find taking care of skis very similar to cars. If you constantly maintain the condition of a skis edges, bases etc, it just takes a quick touch up and they are performing like new again. Neglected skis or cars takes lots of work to make "Like new" again and the person would have skiing on performance compromising gear the whole time they are in between tune ups. There is definitely an art to high end ski tuning but learning even ski basic maintenance and getting the primary tools for common issues goes a long way to letting you learn more about your own gear and how adjustments affect their performance.

 

[James]

I've yet to do a Pagani but as long as it's under $4mil, I'm insured for that so you're good! haha

Modern engines and cars are very well sealed these days so its actually very hard to damage them by cleaning even with lower power pressure washers etc. Actually the larger issue with some of the older cars is letting water sit/get into certain engine areas without drying and that launched the use of leaf blowers/compressed air for drying engines. It worked so well in there that detailers like myself used beefier 12amp electric ones on the whole vehicle that now takes me less than 2 mins to dry including drying rear view mirrors, grills and head/tail light areas that like to drip water forever unless you use a blower. 90% of the water is off a the vehicle with a blower before I even touch it with a soft Microfibre. Now there are lots of heated air blowers specifically designed for drying cars. Customers go from "what do you have a leaf blower for" when I first unload my car at their place to "holy cow that works amazing!" when I used it to dry a properly prepared vehicle.

Find taking care of skis very similar to cars. If you constantly maintain the condition of a skis edges, bases etc, it just takes a quick touch up and they are performing like new again. Neglected skis or cars takes lots of work to make "Like new" again and the person would have skiing on performance compromising gear the whole time they are in between tune ups. There is definitely an art to high end ski tuning but learning even ski basic maintenance and getting the primary tools for common issues goes a long way to letting you learn more about your own gear and how adjustments affect their performance.

Well, I guess the new DP Phantom treatment for bases is like those treatments for a car's clearcoat? So it holds up better without waxing. Optima I think it is?

Soon we'll have to deal with botched Phantom treatment on skis that make them stick to snow more. What a mess that will be. Given how it's cured now, I see zero incentive for a shop to use it on a new ski.
How's that for on topic...

 

[GregK]

As a user who hot waxes my skis daily, I'm curious about those ski base treatments and how they will perform. See that they are supposed to cure in sunlight and there is not a current "indoor curing solution" which sounds like a bit of a nightmare for a shop to do but I'm sure there will be an eventual solution
.
Opti-Coat is the semi permanent(3 years) coating that you were thinking of and it's a fantastic product but had teething issues like the DPS treatment seems to when it first came out. Opti-Coat originally had issues with curing too quickly causing white marks/areas of too much product on the car's finish. A simple machine polish by an pro would remove those marks as they were above the clear coat but the new DPS Phantom treatment is supposed to penetrate the base and stay on even after base grinds etc, so I was wondering just the other day how you could fix a "botched job."

As a shop owner, I would say a customer botching a job is the best possible scenario as there is obviously a proper procedure/some expertise that did not take place and now there will customer fear out there that it is not just a simple DIY. People who are nervous about "wrecking their new skis" will look to the experts in the field to do it rather than risking doing it wrong. Many detailers initially worried about losing business when these paint coatings came out but it has dramatically increased business. The DPS Phantom treatment will be the same for ski shops as the treatment does not fill base scratches, does not sharpen edges etc, so customers wanting this treatment on existing skis will require a full tune before applying it for best results and will still require maintenance on edges etc after that. Customers will go back to the shop that "did a great job on that base coating thing" and referrals to their friends will get them to get full tunes and treatments done as well. You get the customers who may have never got any ski tuning done at all before but now with the hype of "don't wax your skis again" will come in for an application and become a lifetime customer. New skis would need less work to be "treatment ready" and people already dropping large amounts of money on new skis are very likely to have those treatments applied while getting bindings installed etc.

After a few applications of the treatment and knowing the labour time to apply it, shops will come up with application fees for Phantom in addition to the product cost(sure buying in bulk will reduce shop prices below the $100 customer cost) and just have it as a regular add-on item on the shop wall. Shops offering this service early in the game set themselves apart from places that don't and drive customers into the shop that "obviously knows what they are doing as they have the latest tech."

 

[crgildart]

So, here's a thought.. What about folks buying new skis who DON'T want them pretuned because they are going to set their own bevels? I know that's a small crowd but the shop's defense is legit that perhaps they shouldn't be doing work on any ski that wasn't discussed and clearly approved by the customer. So Caveat Emptor. But, a good shop should recommend what is probably needed for the product to work up to expectations.. and do that work for free if approved by the customer.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Every time I fill my car with fuel at the automart, I snag myself a "free" road soda... 'cause I paid top dollar for the fuel. I deserve something 'extra'.

 

[fatbob]

Every time I fill my car with fuel at the automart, I snag myself a "free" road soda... 'cause I paid top dollar for the fuel. I deserve something 'extra'.

So let's get this straight you're a store owner who thinks that a customer paying you the retail price for skis and expects you to check the bases are flat and the factory hasn't mullered the edge angles is "stealing a soda" from you?

Great advert for the industry

 

[Mike Thomas]

I am not now, nor have I ever been a shop owner.

What do YOU do, and do you do it for free??? I'll bet you don't.

If you ask for a binding mount, and get a binding mount, why do you assume you 'deserve' a ski prep included in the mount? They are different services, not everyone needs or WANT to pay for both (because you ARE paying even if it is 'included'). If I did own a shop, I might include multiple 'free' services with the price of new skis. I would then negotiate price based on which services the customer didn't really 'want' or place value in.

 

[CalG]

expectations are the source of all disappointment.

ASK FIRST to avoid ambiguity.

 

[CalG]

The local "Tune shop" has the latest machinery.
But they don't want to mess with my choice of edge or base grind angles. Neither do they want to mess with seasonal base structure.
The LAST thing they want to do is let out a pair of skis with a base grind that does not include running the skis over the "hot wax" roller. (Is there a useful cold wax?)
Have you ever noticed how a wax application makes the bases look incredibly nice and uniform?

I don't blame the shop techs, they have a huge task ahead every night. But to get a gratis "wax" on a new pair of skis is just throwing time and effort down the tubes.

GET WHAT YOU WANT, and pay a fair price to get it.