East Coast skis

[Noodler]

In a way, we have become the tools of our tools. If I had to ski a 90-ish mm ski all the time, I would spend less than 25% of my time ripping high-angle turns on groomers, and soon not be as good at it and not enjoy it as much. I spent less than 20% of my time skiing bumps, less than 20 % of my time in trees and very little time in bumped up trees when my only ski was a speed ski.

That's why I have a quiver now; It's the best of both worlds, but you do have to decide what it's going to be for the next few hours (unless you like spending your time swapping out skis instead of skiing).

I have a large quiver too, but even after 40+ years of skiing I'm realizing that you can have the "Swiss army knife" in one ski if you're willing to not go too wide. Keep it at a reasonable width for skiing hard pack and find a ski with a great design that truly makes it versatile for skiing other terrain and conditions. Then you can grab that one pair of skis going out the door when you really have no idea what the ski day will bring.

 

[Jeronimo]

Anyone wager a theory as to why the retailers/manufacturers are pushing wider skis more and more these days? Maybe its just what's "sexy" right now?

 

[Brad J]

I am a east coat skier that is older and feel much more comfortable on a narrower ski (68-84) for the east coast, I do ski natural snow trails mostly when available and find a 84 the max like especially in bumps. a wider ski is just too wide for me to be quick enough edge to edge in tree's and bumps. Yes the trend is to buy ski's 90+, but the reality is I see one out of one hundred that are skiing them well. I see tons of skidding ,straight lining on those skiing them but certainly not ripping trenches.

 

[Philpug]

Anyone wager a theory as to why the retailers/manufacturers are pushing wider skis more and more these days? Maybe its just what's "sexy" right now?

One of the magazines had their "Frontside Skis", of the 13 or so skis, only 4 were under 90mm, the rest were 90-94. We have 71 men's skis under 90mm. It comes back, look what people drive...SUV's. Yes, many are glorified raised hatchbacks (not the space of a wagon but that is another soapbox to get on) and not better performing cars/wagons for what the use then for.

 

[Philpug]

The OP is being lambasted about wanting a 90-some for the east as a One Ski Quiver, while it might not be the correct choice by somes lofty standards, it is far from being a wrong choice. Could an 85-88 be better, in most cases but not all. Not all 94's are created equal and his thoughts of the DPS Piste 94 is as good of a choice in this range as any.

 

[Truberski]

Clearly there is a bias here to a particular skiing technique (carved turn) and assumption that “east coast” skiing is all groomers, ice, and flat pitch. I love carving fast groomers with the best of them but the kid in me gets bored easily and I find more challenge/fun in difficult/variable terrain. I can ski these extremes in any ski but I find certain low to mid-90ish skis the best compromise for me. And, skidding/sliding turns have their place especially in more challenging and variable terrain. A stiff, tight radius, narrow waisted ski isn’t much fun in this varied terrain and certainly won’t let someone easily progress beyond their comfort zone (groomers).

So, my original point was to not generalize a region as big as “east coast” and assume the original poster skis like you, likes the same terrain as you, or is frequenting an over groomed, icy resort. I also feel this cliche is harbored most by those that have never skied here, lived here, been away for 20 years or are over age of 50!

 

[tch]

One of the magazines had their "Frontside Skis", of the 13 or so skis, only 4 were under 90mm, the rest were 90-94. We have 71 men's skis under 90mm. It comes back, look what people drive...SUV's. Yes, many are glorified raised hatchbacks (not the space of a wagon but that is another soapbox to get on) and not better performing cars/wagons for what the use then for.

While I readily grant @Truberski's points (there is a lot more to east coast skiing than carving hardpack), I will return to @Philpug's point. There's a LOT of image out there. Why indeed does everyone buy a SUV when wagons or even minivans would serve better? Image. Minivans are "soccer mom" material, despite the fact that they can be bought in AWD and offer far more room, better gas mileage, and more comfortable seating than a big SUV.

I have an older friend, fairly moderate recreational skier who only does groomers at Whiteface. A year or two ago, he bought a new pair of skis at a shop where someone advised him about the "best" ski -- Blizzard Bonafides. Now I know the Bones are a pretty good groomer ski for their size....but c'mon, was this the best ski for him and his preferred conditions? Esp. younger folks are influenced by what and who they see, and most ski porn features younger athletes on big skis. Ergo, most "good" skiers "should" be on wide skis.

I have no real interest in sparking another wide-skis-vs-narrow-skis, but it's depressing how easily the American consumer is led by images and advertising.

....but of course, I'm just an old, out-of-touch curmudgeon with no sense of propriety. Hell, one of my skis is even a woman's model (gasp!).

 

[anders_nor]

For us euros, what is really an "east coast" conditions? we have had a WEIRD season here, and no snow in 5-6 weeks, but bluebird and -10 to -20 every day, neeedless to say its getting pretty hard, but they machine the surface and surface prep every day, but putting your pole down, leaning on it, it doesnt make a mark after the first few hours of opening.

at the point where an 84 deacon just feels way to wide for sure for anything but the morning.Im going 60mm for tomorrow

 

[Tony S]

Clearly there is a bias here to a particular skiing technique (carved turn) and assumption that “east coast” skiing is all groomers, ice, and flat pitch. I love carving fast groomers with the best of them but the kid in me gets bored easily and I find more challenge/fun in difficult/variable terrain. I can ski these extremes in any ski but I find certain low to mid-90ish skis the best compromise for me. And, skidding/sliding turns have their place especially in more challenging and variable terrain. A stiff, tight radius, narrow waisted ski isn’t much fun in this varied terrain and certainly won’t let someone easily progress beyond their comfort zone (groomers).

So, my original point was to not generalize a region as big as “east coast” and assume the original poster skis like you, likes the same terrain as you, or is frequenting an over groomed, icy resort. I also feel this cliche is harbored most by those that have never skied here, lived here, been away for 20 years or are over age of 50!

You are making a good point and so are others (e.g., Noodler).

I'd say that one place to find middle ground is in talking about ski design with more nuance than just "width." Some 85mm skis are clearly groomer skis and some are more clearly aimed at ungroomed situations. Unfortunately - to my way of thinking - the latter are becoming harder to find.

As someone whose newly reborn home mountain, Saddleback, is biased towards the ungroomed (imho), I can say that, as is true most places, abundant soft snow where a 100+ mm ski is an advantage is rare unless you live in town AND can jump on that moment at will. Meanwhile windblown crusty bumps and stumps are an everyday all-day challenge. In these conditions a dedicated carver is a handful, though short lengths can mitigate the issues. A big sloppy slarver might be okay, but on the groomers it will be a snooze if you have real carving chops. (Most people don't, no matter what they may say on the internet, which is one reason this particular down side doesn't always resonate with the hoi polloi.)

My 96mm skis with significant off piste design features but carvy beef in the midsection are a (barely) acceptable compromise. The same ski 10 - 15mm narrower would be far far better.

Edit: Yesterday in these exact conditions I skied the SLs and they were okay until I hit the inevitable big pointy rock. I REALLY like to try to have intact edges on my carving skis, so this is another reason to have a middle ground pair of some sort.

 

[Tricia]

Clearly there is a bias here to a particular skiing technique (carved turn) and assumption that “east coast” skiing is all groomers, ice, and flat pitch. I love carving fast groomers with the best of them but the kid in me gets bored easily and I find more challenge/fun in difficult/variable terrain. I can ski these extremes in any ski but I find certain low to mid-90ish skis the best compromise for me. And, skidding/sliding turns have their place especially in more challenging and variable terrain. A stiff, tight radius, narrow waisted ski isn’t much fun in this varied terrain and certainly won’t let someone easily progress beyond their comfort zone (groomers).

So, my original point was to not generalize a region as big as “east coast” and assume the original poster skis like you, likes the same terrain as you, or is frequenting an over groomed, icy resort. I also feel this cliche is harbored most by those that have never skied here, lived here, been away for 20 years or are over age of 50!

You nailed it!

We ski Tahoe as a home base, but spent time at Sun Valley and Big Sky before going to a demo event in New Hampshire. We had better conditions in New Hampshire than we did anywhere up until then.

*Disclaimer. I've lived west for 11 years and am over 50

 

[AngryAnalyst]

For us euros, what is really an "east coast" conditions?

It’s poorly defined. Some substantial section of this board seems to think that “east coast” skiing is all relatively small hills (300 meter vert or so) that get little if any natural snow. While those conditions certainly exist, so do somewhat larger (600+ meter or so) mountains that in a typical year get meaningful amounts of natural snow.

To me, more than snowpack, the unifying feature of eastern skiing is the general absence of “big mountain” terrain. I would also agree big powder days are less common than in some western resorts (though their frequency ranges from non-existent to simply rarer as you drive up the east coast further north until you hit Canada).

Separately, there are many people here (some of whom are I’m sure better skiers than I despite being much older) who spend a lot of their season trying to perfect their technique on groomers. Some of the groomer focused group seem to think this technical progression is the only valid goal for skiing. I disagree with them about that, even if I do agree that many more people would benefit from narrower skis than buy them.

 

[François Pugh]

The OP is being lambasted about wanting a 90-some for the east as a One Ski Quiver, while it might not be the correct choice by somes lofty standards, it is far from being a wrong choice. Could an 85-88 be better, in most cases but not all. Not all 94's are created equal and his thoughts of the DPS Piste 94 is as good of a choice in this range as any.

If what he truly loves to do is smear turns in tight trees before the snow gets all packed down into hard moguls and he doesn't plan on skiing at ludicrous speed, then he may prefer a mid 90s like a Bonafide, and put up with it's lack of perfection on the groomers; it's the best groomer-capable soft-snow biased ski I've been lucky enough to try.

 

[Jeronimo]

The OP is being lambasted about wanting a 90-some for the east as a One Ski Quiver, while it might not be the correct choice by somes lofty standards, it is far from being a wrong choice. Could an 85-88 be better, in most cases but not all. Not all 94's are created equal and his thoughts of the DPS Piste 94 is as good of a choice in this range as any.

Its all good Phil, I genuinely don't feel lambasted at all. I was hoping to see a variety of opinions and hear what other people ski on in my region.

 

[Tony S]

To me, more than snowpack, the unifying feature of eastern skiing is the general absence of “big mountain” terrain

To me, more than snowpack, the unifying feature of eastern skiing is rain.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

To me, more than snowpack, the unifying feature of eastern skiing is rain.

I’ve only skied in the rain twice out here that I can recall. I am not jealous of your experience.

 

[PinnacleJim]

For us euros, what is really an "east coast" conditions? we have had a WEIRD season here, and no snow in 5-6 weeks, but bluebird and -10 to -20 every day, neeedless to say its getting pretty hard, but they machine the surface and surface prep every day, but putting your pole down, leaning on it, it doesnt make a mark after the first few hours of opening. at the point where an 84 deacon just feels way to wide for sure for anything but the morning.Im going 60mm for tomorrow

East coast skiing in the US is at lower elevations (mostly under 4000 ft) with all too frequent rain/ freeze cycles. Also lots of snowmaking. Bases are typically very firm. Yes overnight grooming makes for nice skiable surfaces at opening bell, but it is typically a much less pleasant experience in the afternoon after things get skied off. Not always like that (the last 6 weeks in New England have been among the best I can recall). But all it takes is one soaking rain to set things back.

 

[Jeronimo]

I think i'm going to move west...

 

[KingGrump]

I think i'm going to move west...

You are smarter than you look.

 

[1chris5]

I am currently fascinated by Kästle's. I'm not rich enough to just buy a pair but the 88's or the earlier 74's sound freaking awesome.

You don’t have to be rich - these are $550 with bindings mounted, shipping and maybe taxes!

 

[1chris5]

The OP is being lambasted about wanting a 90-some for the east as a One Ski Quiver, while it might not be the correct choice by somes lofty standards, it is far from being a wrong choice. Could an 85-88 be better, in most cases but not all. Not all 94's are created equal and his thoughts of the DPS Piste 94 is as good of a choice in this range as any.

I love the SUV analogy. I think most people are intimidated by the skinnier ski. When you see a wall of skis what would someone pick, the skinny ski or more stable ski with rocker. Ski technology is amazing now where a fatter ski can do many things well. I just bought a Pinnacle 88 and love the metal on the edges which creates a nice swing weight but it’s really fast and stable. It’s great in the bumps but if it’s fis ice I’m not comfortable at speed. A skinny ski in all conditions may be for the expert but not the mainstream. I ski Blue in the Pocono and would highly recommend something like the 88 mindbender or Pinnacle.