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crgildart

Gravity Slave
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I'm only really comfortable with spreads post 50 years. I was pretty solid with helicopters up through mid 20s. Might be able to still throw a twister spread, but for bigger air it will always be a spread now..

Here's another old one off the same drop as the butterfly in my profile photo..
1985 NM Air-Spread.jpg
 

Xela

On the way to Squaw
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A fair number of cliffs have flat landings. That's not much of a problem if you've got good knees and the drop is short. Otherwise, I'd suggest looking for a steeper landing to reduce the shock of landing. Sometimes there's some snow at the foot of a cliff that makes a decent transition, but you have to keep speed down to hit it. In those cases, the "air" is very modest, even if the thrill is similar.
 

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
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Feb 27, 2016
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Killington
Trees are my biggest concern out east. Landing in area to avoid a woodie is paramount. Most fun drops at Killington are tucked in our many unamed glades.
 

MikeS

freeski919
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A fair number of cliffs have flat landings. That's not much of a problem if you've got good knees and the drop is short. Otherwise, I'd suggest looking for a steeper landing to reduce the shock of landing. Sometimes there's some snow at the foot of a cliff that makes a decent transition, but you have to keep speed down to hit it. In those cases, the "air" is very modest, even if the thrill is similar.

Good point. For example, the Waterfall under the main gondola at Stowe. I know lots of you have seen it. It looks tempting. Sooo tempting just sitting right there. Solid 15-20' drop. Glory to be had from onlookers on the gondi and on the trail below.

Only problem, flat landing. I've seen many a busted lip, black eye, and even some cracked facial bones from people who sent the Waterfall and got a face full of knee for their trouble. The guys who I know who have some experience hucking it will only do it after there's a solid base, and right after a big dump, like 2' or so. Even then, they'll typically land it in the backseat on purpose, landing it on their butt and back, with no attempt made at sticking the landing.

Don't do it, kids. Waterfall is bad, m'kay?
 

Philpug

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Good point. For example, the Waterfall under the main gondola at Stowe. I know lots of you have seen it. It looks tempting. Sooo tempting just sitting right there. Solid 15-20' drop. Glory to be had from onlookers on the gondi and on the trail below.
Same with the cliff drop below the single chair at MRG but not 15-20', more like 8-12'. I did once when the snow was ideal, still flat and a nasty compression, but did it. IIRC @buzzj was following me at the tine.
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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@Drahtguy Kevin knows about flat landings! He followed me off a small drop at A Basin and the resulting crash was spectacular to say the least. Fortunately he skied away unscathed, but his impressive bomb hole remained for days after the incident. Sorry Kev! :crash:
 

Philpug

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@Drahtguy Kevin knows about flat landings! He followed me off a small drop at A Basin and the resulting crash was spectacular to say the least. Fortunately he skied away unscathed, but his impressive bomb hole remained for days after the incident. Sorry Kev! :crash:
And big trees fall hard.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
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Sounds like a mental thing. Once you get past about 8', you really have some time in the air to think about things. after about 12', you can start thinking about the meaning of life, and the validity of Freudian psychology. It's natural to start second guessing things when you've got a moment to think about it. What may be happening is that you're subconsciously reaching out for the landing with your feet. When you do that, your skis are going to level out, and your tails are going to land first. Don't reach for the landing, stomp it.
I know all too well about the mental thing. For me, my hands go back and therefore my body goes back as I "EEK"!
 

tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
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Is there any value in jumping off rocks in the summer time? As kind of dry land training?
 

lonewolf210

Jake K.
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Las Vegas, NV
I would think not. You'd probably just ruin your knees. And for skiing you'd want a steeper landing than for dry-land. Maybe mountain biking?

Maybe a little but not really. The front end of the bike wants to drop so much that the hard is making sure you are centered and have enough speed to make sure you don't go flying over the handle bars.
 

Philpug

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Trampoline? The toughest thing for me to get back every year is air sense. As I get older, I get less and less comfortable in the air especially going up.
 

crgildart

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Trampoline? The toughest thing for me to get back every year is air sense. As I get older, I get less and less comfortable in the air especially going up.
THIS. As the brain changes size with age it rattles around more in the skull and messes up the internal gyroscope, along with the ability to withstand impacts.

Three years ago I spent 45 minutes with the scouts inside a trampoline park casually jumping and doing a couple back flips. Simple compression from the jumping wrecked my already bad back and it was really sore for over a month after that. Had to sit down to tie my shoes, etc..

I will still go off medium stuff with a nice landing zone but the big days with sketchy landing zones are over..

But, back in the healthier, younger days, running down terrain and jumping off drops, along with tramps and diving boards were all great off the snow training., still are, just less impact sustainable now.
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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Air awareness is something that is very difficult to teach. For most people, you either have it, or you don't. This is because air awareness is something that is most effectively developed at a very young age, before the reasoning part of our brain is fully developed. Think about it, toddlers are risk takers. They have to be in order to learn many of the motor skills they will need in order to survive, such as walking. Toddlers fall over and over while learning to walk and it doesn't seem to phase them in the slightest. At the same time, however, their survival instinct is very low. Toddlers do not need to take care of themselves. That's what moms and dads are for. The kids that push themselves and take the hardest falls in those formative years often develop a higher risk tolerance that they carry with them through life.

For me, I was a rambunctious kid that was constantly climbing on things and jumping off of them. This interest in tumbling eventually led me to activities that further developed this body control and air awareness. Gymnastics, Tae Kwon Do, and spring board diving offered me controlled environments to explore the boundaries of physics. Flipping and spinning through the air is really no different from walking or skiing; all of these things involve moving our body while being subjected to various forces around us. The difference with jumping, flipping, and spinning, is that there is an inherent element of risk involved that makes practicing these movements more difficult than simply walking.

Trying to develop air awareness later in life, although challenging, is not impossible. As many have mentioned, trampolines are great. They offer a ton of repetition, which ultimately contributes to muscle memory. Muscle memory is KEY and it is the advantage that those who start young have over those who do not. When you are spinning through the air, everything seems to speed up. Your visual perception is distorted because you can't seem to focus on one particular visual cue. Your brain interprets lots of different visual stimuli and doesn't really know what to make of it. Those of us that have spent our entire lives doing this stuff, have developed a visual hypersensitivity that allows us to actually see what is going on around us. This is most commonly referred to as spotting. The second spotting begins to happen, everything magically begins to slow down. When things slow down, we are able to coordinate the activity between our brain and our body more accurately. Eventually, your body begins to react to these visual cues without you even being aware of it. This is muscle memory.

Getting together with a qualified coach that not only understands these concepts, but also has the ability to communicate them effectively to you, cannot be undervalued here. A lot of coaching comes down to a person's ability to empathize. The best coaches know exactly what their students are feeling, because they themselves were once the student; they overcame the same challenges and are now helping others to do the same. People may develop different psychologies, but human motor skills and the immutable laws of physics remain the same.
 

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