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JayT

Tahoe Powder Junkie
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IMO the biggest mistake people make when dropping cliffs is not attacking the landing. And on that note I think the idea of dropping cliffs is misleading, when you really want to ski the cliffs, if that makes sense. If you're aggressively going after it, it keeps your body and hands forward and you should somewhat naturally find the proper position. If you're hesitant, you end up leaning back and trying to land on your tails instead of keeping your skis parallel to the slope.

Also, standing above it and thinking about it too much can be a negative. Sometimes you just need to commit and send it. It's a lot easier than people build it up to be in their heads.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
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Team Gathermeister
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Also, standing above it and thinking about it too much can be a negative. Sometimes you just need to commit and send it. It's a lot easier than people build it up to be in their heads.

Not quite cliffs, but I've noticed that with cornices. Every time I've gone off one, I've said "well, that was a lot easier than it looked!"

Of course, if I ever have to say it was harder than it looked, I'm probably going to be in trouble.
 

Crank

Making fresh tracks
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Cornices I got no problem with. Cliffs - no way!
 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
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I think it’s to bad there are so few small and mid size ledges to drop in most ski areas. In mountain biking there are progressively size drops of any height: start with curbs, then slowly work your way up.

Their just isn’t much of one-two foot drops in skiing. Of course, this is due to snow itself, filling up low spots, and groomers flattening everything out. Moguls have the relief, but I want a smooth run in and landing for learning, not landing in a mogul field.
 

Xela

On the way to Squaw
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The thing about "dropping" cliffs is that sometimes there's a short transition and if you don't slow down, you'll overshoot and land flat (or it's steep and you'll fly too far). I guess that's what's different from "skiing" cliffs. All the other stuff about being aggressive and confident, forward and stomping should be the same. I agree that too much time standing at the top and thinking can mess you up. At the same time, it's good to scope out the landing and judge speed.

I think if you look carefully, there are a number of smaller drops to be found. Sometimes they're early-season features that will get covered. Sometimes they start huge and get smaller by late season. Sometimes, they're off the edges of cat tracks. And cornices come in a variety of sizes.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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I think it’s to bad there are so few small and mid size ledges to drop in most ski areas. In mountain biking there are progressively size drops of any height: start with curbs, then slowly work your way up.

Their just isn’t much of one-two foot drops in skiing. Of course, this is due to snow itself, filling up low spots, and groomers flattening everything out. Moguls have the relief, but I want a smooth run in and landing for learning, not landing in a mogul field.

I think if you look carefully, there are a number of smaller drops to be found. Sometimes they're early-season features that will get covered. Sometimes they start huge and get smaller by late season. Sometimes, they're off the edges of cat tracks. And cornices come in a variety of sizes.

I was going to post what @Xela said. Look at the runs with the eyes of a child - or a snowboarder!
 

Matt from CA

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This question inevitably pops up in the "Freestyle Tricks and Tips" thread but I think it is a topic that deserves its own separate discussion. To get the ball rolling here I am going to post a short article that I wrote several years ago. Please feel free to add anything I may have left out! And of course, this thread is worthless without pics! Please share some of your favorite cliff dropping pictures and videos!


Dean's Tips for Dropping Cliffs!

The two most important factors to consider when dropping cliffs are confidence and commitment. If you aren't confident that you are going to stomp your landings, then you probably won't. If you aren't committed to a particular drop, then you will most likely make last minute defensive maneuvers that will get you into trouble. So that being said, before you start haphazardly throwing yourself from high places, you are going to have to put your fears to the side. Here are a few tips that will help you approach a cliff of any size with confidence!


*Do some investigation first! Scope the drop from above and below. Probe the landing to make sure you aren't landing on anything that can hurt you. Make mental notes about the approach, the drop, and the landing. Is the approach really steep? What is the trajectory of the takeoff? Does the drop require that you air over rocks or trees? What kind of landing should you expect and how are you going to control speed after you land? Also keep in mind that cliffs usually look very different when you are standing on top of them. Depending on the size of the cliff you may or may not be able to see the landing. While investigating you should be creating a mental image of all of the details. The more investigation you do, the more confident you will feel about a particular cliff.


*Make a plan for your approach, takeoff, and landing! After you have done your investigation you should have a pretty good idea of how much speed you should carry into the drop in order to reach your desired landing area. You should also have a pretty good idea of where you are going to negotiate turns after your landing in order to control speed. Visualizing the drop in your head from start to finish is paramount. If you can visualize it, you can probably do it! With regard to the approach, I recommend standing on top of the drop and sidestepping up to where you want to begin your approach. Start from a place where you can ski straight into the drop without making any turns. This way you can focus on the cliff, not the two or three turns leading up to the drop. Figure out the speed you need! I'm of the opinion that speed is your friend. Think of it like riding a bike. The faster you go the easier it is to balance. I cringe every time I see someone ski too slow into a cliff or jump because I already know what the outcome is going to be; they are going to roll down the windows, land in the backseat, backslap, and possibly tear a knee. I know it is counter intuitive to most but it is simple physics; an object in motion will stay in motion, while an object at rest will stay at rest. Remember that you will accelerate at roughly 9.86m/s every second while in the air. If you are moving very slowly at takeoff, your body will try to stay where it is while gravity pulls in a different direction. The result is that you get into the backseat, which makes negotiating landings difficult and dangerous.


*Takeoff. What sort of takeoff do you have? In my opinion, takeoffs can take 3 general forms; downward, flat, or upward. Upward takeoffs are probably the most difficult because they tend to pop you into the air and the trajectory is the furthest away from your desired landing position. Downward or flat takeoffs are much easier (although downward can also be very difficult if the slope is very steep because it makes speed control on the approach more complicated.) I recommend starting with a flat takeoff. Below is a picture that shows a relatively flat takeoff.




*Landing. If you look closely at my skis you can see that they are almost parallel with my landing surface (although you can't exactly see the landing in this photo). If you look at my hands you can see that they are in front of my knees. The key to stomping any air is to land with as much of your ski as possible. You never want to land on your tips or tails. Land on your feet. In almost every case your landing is going to be on a slope. Let's think about this for a second. If your takeoff is "flat" and your landing is on a slope, you need to drive your weight forward in order to match your skis to the landing. This involves some core strength as well as some subtle manipulation of your skis using your feet and knees. Not only can you use your 6 pack abs to keep your upper body over your knees and toes, but you can flex your ankles or bend your knees to change the angle of your skis in the air. If I flex my ankles my tips go up. If I bend my knees and pretend like I'm kicking myself in the butt, my tips drop. I can use a combination of these tools to make sure my weight stays forward throughout the drop and that I land on as much of my ski as possible.


*Landing continued. Just because you land on your feet doesn't mean that you are done. You still have to ski away like a boss. The biggest mistake that most people make is that they try to control their speed too quickly after landing. Remember that you are accelerating while in the air and traveling pretty fast by the time you land. If you rush to control speed you are going to eat it. Land. Regain balance and control. And then think about making some turns. On a small drop (5'-8') you may be able to jump back into some short radius turns. On larger drops, think about negotiating medium to large radius turns. Think about the big boys being filmed from helicopters dropping cliffs down huge faces in AK (Mark Abma, Sage Cattabriga-Alosa, Seth Morrison, etc.). I would describe their turns after landing as huge radius. The bigger the drop and the faster you are traveling, the longer it is going to take to effectively control speed. This is why scoping your landing and developing an exit strategy BEFORE you hit a cliff is so important.


A few other things to keep in mind:

*Start small

*Get comfortable catching air, whether it is on park jumps, moguls, or a trampoline.

*Watch other people. Identify what they are doing right. Identify what they are doing wrong. Replicate the good and avoid the bad.

*Have fun!!


I hope this information helps! Please feel free to post any questions you may have!
 

Matt from CA

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Hello can you tell me more detail for the take off ? Should we push off the jump like a springboard into a pool , push down ? To straighten bent knees Or opposite , without any push down ? Or does it depend on how much air one needs to clear rocks into landing snow ?
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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Apologies if already said.
Tip 1: don't hit your jaw with your knee - line them(your knees) up with your shoulders, just in case you under-estimate the impact;
Tip 2: all that downward velocity gravity gives you while in the air will be converted to along-the-slope velocity on impact, be ready to be accelerated. You will gain the same amount of downward velocity, no matter what your original velocity is, it's just a matter of 32 ft/s times how long your are in the air.
 

martyg

Making fresh tracks
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How many of those who Huck cornices have completed an advanced any course?
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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Hello can you tell me more detail for the take off ? Should we push off the jump like a springboard into a pool , push down ? To straighten bent knees Or opposite , without any push down ? Or does it depend on how much air one needs to clear rocks into landing snow ?

It really depends on the specific drop. Sometime you need to "pop" at takeoff in order to clear exposure. Other times you can simply allow the speed you carry at takeoff to get you to your desired landing zone.
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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How many of those who Huck cornices have completed an advanced any course?

I took my Avy 1 back in 2013 with some of the best in the biz. Since then, I have done numerous refreshers and have shared the company of some of the most "avy savvy" folks in the country. I also almost never ski in the backcountry.
 

Monique

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It really depends on the specific drop. Sometime you need to "pop" at takeoff in order to clear exposure. Other times you can simply allow the speed you carry at takeoff to get you to your desired landing zone.

As a particularly uncoordinated person, I'll just mention that if you "pop" at the wrong time, you're going to make things much worse for yourself. Same for other sports, like mountain biking. AMHIK.
 
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dean_spirito

dean_spirito

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I took my kids out jumping the other day. What I like about these pictures is that they each demonstrate a slightly different approach to the same feature.

This kid opted to carry speed, punch his hands forward, and send the air deep!


The next kid decided to "pop" at takeoff and execute a stylish mute grab in the air.


This girl decided to take this cliff at an angle to effectively minimize her air time. It also made for a pretty dynamic photo!


Not bad for a bunch of preteens.
 

graham418

Skiing the powder
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I took my kids out jumping the other day. What I like about these pictures is that they each demonstrate a slightly different approach to the same feature.

This kid opted to carry speed, punch his hands forward, and send the air deep!


The next kid decided to "pop" at takeoff and execute a stylish mute grab in the air.


This girl decided to take this cliff at an angle to effectively minimize her air time. It also made for a pretty dynamic photo!


Not bad for a bunch of preteens.

They all look pretty good!!
I also noted they look very much the same. It took a while,,,,whats different in these pictures..... They have different helmets, different boots , different skis....
But you make them share the same jacket? :huh:
 

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