abcd

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I typed this into "recreational and sustainable" thread and Tricia locked the thread just as I was typing this. Didn't think it deserves a separate thread, but it's already typed so can't let it go to waste :)
Youtube suddenly offered a gem from 8 years ago - a video of a 1 hr lesson with Takao.
the video includes "before and after the lesson" comparison at the end. I pointed the link below straight to the comparison.

Don't know if he teaches the same thing now, 8 years is a long term.

Also in the same video on 42:15 there is an interesting split-screen where his movements on a groomer are paralleled with what he does in the bumps.
Reminds me of JF's video 22 where he shows similarity of his movements in and out of the bumps

 
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Tricia

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The first person who takes this thread down the path the other thread went will be put in time out.
If the "other method" BS Starts, I will delete such posts and lock this thread.

Play nice!
 

geepers

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Nice find. I really like the skiing Takao shows in the recent Rookie vids - mostly long and short turns rather than bumps - and whilst this one is several years old there's sure to be some timeless info. Does anyone speak Japanese?

As you point out the split of Takao bumps/groomers is nice demo. I also found the before/after splits of each of the students (53:57 and 54:48) interesting. There's not a huge change in technique or ROM however the wider line seems to give each of them less difficulty and they look much more in control. Figuring this is due to that line providing a less rapid change in slope and more time to react.
 

LiquidFeet

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....Also in the same video on 42:15 there is an interesting split-screen where his movements on a groomer are paralleled with what he does in the bumps.
Frame captures to make this conversation easier:
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Screen Shot 2020-01-05 at 5.59.30 AM.png
Screen Shot 2020-01-05 at 5.59.40 AM.png
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Screen Shot 2020-01-05 at 5.59.58 AM.png
--Bump turns on the left have visible absorption; otherwise, the turn mechanics are the same both sides.
--He's using a flexion release for every turn.
--His skis move away from him, way out to the side.
--In the bumps he is aiming those skis at the shoulder of a neighboring bump.
--In both sets of turns, his edges are high and gripping.
--His skis turn him.
--All the turns are C-shaped; there's a top to each turn.
--The turns are round.
--In the bump run on the left he is skiing the same width corridor as he is on the right.
--Since he is not skiing a narrow corridor down the fall line, he has no reason to use pivot-slip-style leg rotation to get his skis to come around fast enough to stay in that narrow corridor.

One could, by some definitions of the word, call this carving through the bumps, or a version of carving. But I doubt there is a pencil-thin line.
 
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Mike-AT

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Nice find. I really like the skiing Takao shows in the recent Rookie vids - mostly long and short turns rather than bumps - and whilst this one is several years old there's sure to be some timeless info. Does anyone speak Japanese?

As you point out the split of Takao bumps/groomers is nice demo. I also found the before/after splits of each of the students (53:57 and 54:48) interesting. There's not a huge change in technique or ROM however the wider line seems to give each of them less difficulty and they look much more in control. Figuring this is due to that line providing a less rapid change in slope and more time to react.
What immediately notice here is that the student with blue-ish pants lacks upper/lower body separation, no? He seems to lead into the turn with his upper body. The other one shows nice fermur rotation, upper body faces the fall line. It is a bit similar to the pivot slip comparison thread that @Josh Matta recently started!
 

CalG

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Where does one go to buy bumps like that? I've never seen them at my hill,
Must be some factory somewhere selling them, they all look so much alike. ;-)
 

geepers

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What immediately notice here is that the student with blue-ish pants lacks upper/lower body separation, no? He seems to lead into the turn with his upper body. The other one shows nice fermur rotation, upper body faces the fall line. It is a bit similar to the pivot slip comparison thread that @Josh Matta recently started!
From earlier in the vid... blu-ish pants is a lady, I think.

There's less separation on turns to the left. But keep in mind she was showing plenty of jacket zipper down the hill in the before run and the wider line means the upper body has more time to follow the skis around. Suggest disregard the last turn as she was then coming to a halt.

There's a very definite increase in control for each student in the after lesson run.

There's a great deal of bump skiing training vid being created by Japan/Korea these days. Be great to get some translations.

Where does one go to buy bumps like that? I've never seen them at my hill,
Must be some factory somewhere selling them, they all look so much alike. ;-)
All bump fields are man-made. But I know what you mean.
 

Josh Matta

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Where does one go to buy bumps like that? I've never seen them at my hill,
Must be some factory somewhere selling them, they all look so much alike. ;-)
you make them buy skiing a really round line.
 

Josh Matta

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What immediately notice here is that the student with blue-ish pants lacks upper/lower body separation, no? He seems to lead into the turn with his upper body. The other one shows nice fermur rotation, upper body faces the fall line. It is a bit similar to the pivot slip comparison thread that @Josh Matta recently started!
I recently polled basically every facebook skiing group, and he was one of the only guys who liked the USSA pivot slip demo better than Bob Barnes video. He said it was "prettier" which pretty much sums up japanese/korean ski teaching. For them Function follows form.
 

CoPow

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(Edit) Sorry this first part was not about this thread. I'm too tired and sick.

So I was sick and it was crazy with incidents but I got like 15 min to try one footed. It's basically impossible, almost completely because it's so hard to do one footed pivot on the LTE side. ESPECIALLY coming back from BTE side. But I don't think it proves anything other than it's freaking difficult. Also, with the focus of Bob Barnes or Erik Schlopy, Bob Barnes one gets my skis chatter like his video. Erik Schlopy one is more smear with good ski contact. Not saying which is better, it's just different.
(/Edit)

As for the video, I'm not a great fan of him, but there is no denying it's pretty through. it's a progression video. Looking at only the bump part greatly diminish the meaning of the video. There is a lot of unique tips too, like it or not. The early parts have a lot of emphasis on carving, or rather, stepping up to carving from sliding turn. Lot of emphasis on straight knees to the black jacket guy, with a fist width space between (Hiza hanashite, Hiza hanashite). Also making wide arcs with a lot of width. Another notable tip is inside foot pressure. He didn't say to pressure the inside foot, but repeatedly says "move your body as if you are on the inside ski". I bet the girl with the white jacket has a racing background and she didn't get many comments at this stage. If you can carve, this stage is basically about carving patiently until you go sideways quite a bit.

Then next is basically falling leaf to get the fore aft movement.

Then there is a bunch of slow speed stuff. Notable thing is he's letting the student do sideways, sliding turn then change the gear mid turn into carving to have them feel the difference.

When he instruct to do carving oriented turns, he repeatedly say moving to the tips of the skis (well not that it's surprising).

Then he moves to large turns and instruct to lean big time. And pull the inside hip. All this is for carving and at this point balance is not a focus. Leaning and pulling the inside hip, they are unbalanced but his focus (I assume) is to have them feel the carving, like extreme carving if anybody remember/know.

It's getting VERY long so I'll post before going to the next section.
 
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CoPow

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Now finally Step 5 about bumps at 39:30 ish. At first he pointed out they both are going straight down and he does not want them to do it (at this point of their progress). He goes Blue Line but with more side space and let the students basically go straight (deeply across the hill), starting from before the blue line, and then they have to stop after the next bump. The focus is to feel the up and down of the bump and stop. Then he starts to have the students do a turn then stop with a pole plant. He emphases going sideways. Then he starts giving out mini tips. What I found interesting is from 46:40, he says to not bend the knees as it causes your butt to be in the backseat. Instead bend your hips and lean the upper body forwards and do a bit of a bow without knees bent, nor open, just natural. Then a bunch of emphasis to heading sideways, planting the pole ahead of where you are heading, not downwards. At around 51:40, "ojigi suru, ojigi suru" is the timing they are told to bow.

After than, he has them smear a bit more downwards, leading them to more of linked blue line turns.

I was getting lazier and lazier as there is so many tips and so I skipped more and more tips, but this is how basically the video goes.
 
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jack97

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Frame captures to make this conversation easier:
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Bump turns on the left have visible absorption, while turn mechanics are the same both sides.
He's using a flexion release for every turn. His skis move away from him, way out to the side.
In the bumps he is aiming those skis at the shoulder of a neighboring bump.
In both sets of turns, his edges are high and gripping. His skis turn him.
All the turns are C-shaped; there's a top to each turn. They are round.
In the bump run he is not skiing straight down the fall line in a very narrow corridor.
For that reason he is not using pivot-skip-style leg rotation to get his skis around fast in the bumps.

One could, by some definitions of the word, call this carving through the bumps, or a version of carving. But I doubt there is a pencil-thin line.
Great breakdown. I saw Takao's vid over the summer, it has good info in terms of embedding absorption range with wider turns when the bump formation is wider. That comes from skiing in the Japanese Technical Skiing Comps. Below is a vid of 2018 championship in this category. Interesting that they will traverse the course to show skiing in bumps with tight to wider formation.

 

Josh Matta

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I will fully coincide that riding big berms like this is one of the few times that I think hips should square up with your skis. @LiquidFeet might remember us talking about while skiing woods with similar berms at stowe.

I still dont know why its good on an open groomer though...

One reason why I typically do not like most Asian ski teaching and I ll say it again is that for them its art, not science. Which is fine if that how you want it to be. but many things they do are entirely subjective based.
 

jack97

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OP of T. Maruyma's vid shows a progression in regards to the hip being square to the skis, he doesn't ski like this in competition. Most of the drills shown has an emphasis of weight shifting to the new downhill ski. IMO, this is one of hardest things to do for newbies in the bump.
 

Mike King

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OP of T. Maruyma's vid shows a progression in regards to the hip being square to the skis, he doesn't ski like this in competition. Most of the drills shown has an emphasis of weight shifting to the new downhill ski. IMO, this is one of hardest things to do for newbies in the bump.
I've just skied with a Danish demo team member who has skied with Takao in China -- one of Takao's big things is foot placement. But he also believes in a connection between the outside hip and the outside foot. He coaches that there is some impetus from the hip to the outside foot at the initiation of the turn. So while the video shows a lot more rotation of the hip, his more recent coaching shows hip rotation only at the initiation to the shaping phase of the turn. I believe that the Interski presentation covers this.

Mike
 

jack97

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@jack97, do you mean weight shifting to the new outside ski, which becomes downhill? Or the new inside ski, which starts out downhill?
Weight shifting to the new outside ski, which becomes the downhill. The drills he shows overlaps some of the drills used by freestyle coaches.
 

jack97

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I've just skied with a Danish demo team member who has skied with Takao in China -- one of Takao's big things is foot placement. But he also believes in a connection between the outside hip and the outside foot. He coaches that there is some impetus from the hip to the outside foot at the initiation of the turn. So while the video shows a lot more rotation of the hip, his more recent coaching shows hip rotation only at the initiation to the shaping phase of the turn. I believe that the Interski presentation covers this.

Mike
Foot placement is huge for bump skiers. Just my opinion, OP vid, the progression was to get stacked while making the turns. Aligning the hip over the outside leg while doing it in 3D terrain is hard for newbies.
 
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