Back Seat- Boot Related?

[Chip]

Having some boot flex makes the ride over a chunky frozen surface a lot more comfortable and stable.

So did you think I was struggling at all with my boots while we were skiing last week?

 

[Atomicman]

Having some boot flex makes the ride over a chunky frozen surface a lot more comfortable and stable.

Ya have to have "supple"ankles. And everything smooths out.

 

[Noodler]

Having some boot flex makes the ride over a chunky frozen surface a lot more comfortable and stable.

I think my statement is being misinterpreted toward the extreme. What I said is that it's not necessary to flex a boot, not that it's a great idea to be locked into concrete. I did state that your choice of flex is dependent on the terrain you ski and if you choose to use the boot's flex as the suspension to smooth your ride, then that's your choice and it's fine. Skiers just need to understand that there's a give and take when it comes to finding the right flex for their needs. This is why I advocate for a boot quiver. I know it's not practical for most folks, but I love having the option of ramping up to a stiffer boot for some days and a softer boot for others.

 

[Atomicman]

This is still in play. I went from 120 to 130 due to the fact that I felt I could easily over-flex the 120. So I do feel the new boot is a little stiffer and could play into what I was experiencing. Now that I think I have the forward lean dialed in better, I'll have to figure out if flex is playing a part in this or not. As many have stated- just need to ski with the new boots more.

Problem is too much forward lean can cause the lower leg to hit the back of the cuff before your heel is in the heel pocket. Both my sons have large lower legs and ankles and both of their boots have to be straightened up or they can't get into the heel pocket. I'm just the opposite, spoilers and tongue built up to take up space for my skinny lower leg.

 

[mdf]

I think my statement is being misinterpreted toward the extreme. What I said is that it's not necessary to flex a boot, not that it's a great idea to be locked into concrete.

Not you, but some do advocate concrete. My point is just that the more precision isn't always better.

 

[Lauren]

So thanks @KingGrump for so graciously discussing the Power Shift adjustment with me last night, it finally clicked on how it worked. I just needed to sort it out in my pea brain. So adjusted from the 15 to 17, but I had to remove a couple extra parts off the boot to allow it to move. The second one took only 5 minutes compared to the first which, let’s just say, took longer.

Would you elaborate on the "extra parts" you had to take off the boot to allow it to move? I wanted to play with the forward lean on my Hawx's last weekend and couldn't get it to move. Tried for a while; had my husband look at it (and try using his strength) ... nothing. I *think* I understand how it's supposed to work, but I also feel like I must be missing *something*. Reading through your thread, I was nodding in agreement when you were saying that it just wouldn't work for you....what's @KingGrump's secret?

 

[SoVtJoey]

Problem is too much forward lean can cause the lower leg to hit the back of the cuff before your heel is in the heel pocket. Both my sons have large lower legs and ankles and both of their boots have to be straightened up or they can't get into the heel pocket. I'm just the opposite, spoilers and tongue built up to take up space for my skinny lower leg.

Anatomically speaking this doesn’t make sense. The farther forward the lean the more your heel drops into the pocket. I have large calves and my ankles are also large. I also have a wide foot and lower instep. As long as I’m in the correct boot for my leg and foot it works perfectly. That’s why I ski langes. I also use 3 different pairs of zipfits for all three of my boots. Brand loyalty and listening to what other brand enthusiasts say mutes the actual physical needs of the skier.

that statement you made makes me automatically think your boys are both in too stiff of a boot and could probably use some coaching that isn’t PSIA based and rather USSA based.

its the difference between skidding turns and carving turns, one’s not skiing and one is. Of course I stivot and slarve turns but that’s due to tactic change in the terrain and knowing proper edge control, base control, and ability.

I would go out on a limb and say your boys are both in atomics due to your screen name. What works for your anatomical build doesn’t necessarily work for theirs.

 

[SoVtJoey]

Ya have to have "supple"ankles. And everything smooths out.

How do you have supple ankles if you can’t flex your ankle?

 

[SoVtJoey]

I think my statement is being misinterpreted toward the extreme. What I said is that it's not necessary to flex a boot, not that it's a great idea to be locked into concrete. I did state that your choice of flex is dependent on the terrain you ski and if you choose to use the boot's flex as the suspension to smooth your ride, then that's your choice and it's fine. Skiers just need to understand that there's a give and take when it comes to finding the right flex for their needs. This is why I advocate for a boot quiver. I know it's not practical for most folks, but I love having the option of ramping up to a stiffer boot for some days and a softer boot for others.

So if it’s not necessary to flex a boot then why are boots made to flex? Enlighten me.

 

[Chip]

@Lauren so mine only adjust from 15 to 17. In the end 16 was where I needed to be. Hence the duct tape. But to get it to the 17 mark I needed to remove the cant portion of the boot. Basically take the cuff section off. But you should be able to get in the boot with the adjustment stuff removed and lean forward and have another person put those pieces back on.
I think this is correct.

 

[Noodler]

So if it’s not necessary to flex a boot then why are boots made to flex? Enlighten me.

It shouldn't be necessary to flex a boot to achieve proper fore/aft alignment. Most folks are not correctly stance aligned and require flexing the boot in order to get into a balanced position. Don't read past what I'm actually stating and assume I'm telling everyone to ski in a concrete boot. The point about flex is about boot response, GIVEN that you have proper fore/aft alignment. The vast majority of the skiing public is not correctly aligned, so the vast majority need to flex the boot in order to get into fore/aft balance. Feeling enlightened now?

 

[freeskier1961]

Well said Noodler. I totally agree and have finally achieved, incredible difference!

 

[SoVtJoey]

It shouldn't be necessary to flex a boot to achieve proper fore/aft alignment. Most folks are not correctly stance aligned and require flexing the boot in order to get into a balanced position. Don't read past what I'm actually stating and assume I'm telling everyone to ski in a concrete boot. The point about flex is about boot response, GIVEN that you have proper fore/aft alignment. The vast majority of the skiing public is not correctly aligned, so the vast majority need to flex the boot in order to get into fore/aft balance. Feeling enlightened now?

No. Not feeling enlightened because different terrain takes different input, as well as snow type. In a perfect world with perfect snow with no bumps or holes or transitions, I’ll agree. But nothing is perfect. Like I said, it’s the difference in skiing and actually skiing. Ripping groomers and getting perfect Carve scores isn’t skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

No. Not feeling enlightened because different terrain takes different input, as well as snow type. In a perfect world with perfect snow with no bumps or holes or transitions, I’ll agree. But nothing is perfect. Like I said, it’s the difference in skiing and actually skiing. Ripping groomers and getting perfect Carve scores isn’t skiing.

I think you're talking past each other. I believe Noodler is simply saying that most people's boot setups don't have them in a balanced position from the get-go - at rest, in a static stance. So they have to flex the boot to get in balance in the first place, just to start skiing.

So he's saying if you're alignment is good, you're not flexing the boot initially, and could theoretically ski without flexing. Though of course athletic skiing is very likely to need you to flex the boot depending on application as you said.

That's my read anyway.

 

[Lauren]

@Lauren so mine only adjust from 15 to 17. In the end 16 was where I needed to be. Hence the duct tape. But to get it to the 17 mark I needed to remove the cant portion of the boot. Basically take the cuff section off. But you should be able to get in the boot with the adjustment stuff removed and lean forward and have another person put those pieces back on.
I think this is correct.

Thanks. I’ll take another look with this info…see if I can figure it out.

Mine are also 13/15/17 options…I’m currently on the 15, and very well might end up in between.

 

[Noodler]

No. Not feeling enlightened because different terrain takes different input, as well as snow type. In a perfect world with perfect snow with no bumps or holes or transitions, I’ll agree. But nothing is perfect. Like I said, it’s the difference in skiing and actually skiing. Ripping groomers and getting perfect Carve scores isn’t skiing.

I guess at this point we have to just agree to disagree. I ski with a crew of guys who are pretty much always in their 150 plugs and ski the whole mountain just fine. My point is about skiing skill and preferred boot response, and the unfortunate lack of understanding about fore/aft stance alignment and it's impact on your balance (and ultimately your skiing enjoyment).

 

[James]

Most people are in boots too big and often way too big. This causes the boot to be functionally stiffer for them.
I just went through this with someone who said “my boots are too stiff”. People jumped in and told him to remove both bolts. Bad idea. I looked at it, it’s a 110 boot, he’s not small, prob weighs 175. So I shell fitted him and he had over an inch space behind his heel.

I’ve seen much worse. Last year I had a guy and he couldn’t just stand in skis and move his knee forward. So we went to lunch and took the boots off and checked. Nearly 2 inches! No wonder her couldn’t get his knee forward.

 

[Atomicman]

How do you have supple ankles if you can’t flex your ankle?

Flexing your boot and keeping relaxed ankles are 2 different things.

 

[Atomicman]

Anatomically speaking this doesn’t make sense. The farther forward the lean the more your heel drops into the pocket. I have large calves and my ankles are also large. I also have a wide foot and lower instep. As long as I’m in the correct boot for my leg and foot it works perfectly. That’s why I ski langes. I also use 3 different pairs of zipfits for all three of my boots. Brand loyalty and listening to what other brand enthusiasts say mutes the actual physical needs of the skier.

that statement you made makes me automatically think your boys are both in too stiff of a boot and could probably use some coaching that isn’t PSIA based and rather USSA based.

its the difference between skidding turns and carving turns, one’s not skiing and one is. Of course I stivot and slarve turns but that’s due to tactic change in the terrain and knowing proper edge control, base control, and ability.

I would go out on a limb and say your boys are both in atomics due to your screen name. What works for your anatomical build doesn’t necessarily work for theirs.

You are so off base! 1st off they are in Head Raptors. 2ndly they were both Junior Olympic level junior racers. And my older boy won a Masters GS. Older one finished 1st for PNSA and in the top ten for Western Regional JO's in SG and GS! You are wrong on the forward lean and heel. If your lower leg hits the back of the cuff before you have pressure on your heel, you don't get in the pocket and are out of balance. You sure make a lot of INCORRECT F-ing assumptions!

 

[Vestirse]

Thanks. I’ll take another look with this info…see if I can figure it out.

Mine are also 13/15/17 options…I’m currently on the 15, and very well might end up in between.

@onenerdykid ^^^