Colorado Arapahoe Basin Is NOW a Free Agent (8/2/19 Update: A-Basin has joined IKON)

[tball]

@tball
What those, supposedly duped, people can do to take control is:

• Go somewhere else to ski
• Get up earlier to get better parking
• Get there around noon to snag parking from someone leaving

What those people can't do:

• Change Arapahoe Basin's decision to go IKON and MCP

I don't feel duped. Maybe a little mislead about the motivation to exit the VR relationship because of crowding, but not duped. I bought my pass knowing anything was possible. Both IKON and MCP is a bit of a shock, though.

I think there is something else people can do to take a little control:

• Let their feelings be known to A-basin.

That's what I'm doing, and the discussion here informs the customer feedback I provide to A-basin as a 35-year customer.

We are very fortunate. Al is a great guy, and I know he listens to constructive feedback. He's also a fantastic business mind, and the moves A-basin has made under his leadership have been extraordinary. I also hope and believe he will solve the capacity issues, and want to make sure the guest perspectives like mine are fully considered.

Some see that as whining or worrying about things I can't control. For me, it's doing my little part to shape the future of a ski area I love.

 

[Blue Streak]

Look, if I want to talk about how I took a leave of absence because I couldn't even focus on my screen anymore, or how stressful some stuff has been this summer, or anything else going on ... I usually find other outlets. @tball alluded to the fact that there may be other things weighing him down. Sometimes bitching about stupid stuff is a coping mechanism or at worst just a way to fill time so you're not worrying about the big stuff.

(If you're interested, you can also google "first world problems problematic" to find some commentary on why it's not a great term to use, even though I am also tempted to use it. I also dislike using it to trivialize someone else's problems, rather than trivializing your own.)

I am not alluding to anyone’s personal troubles, for we all have many. Those are anything but trivial.
I was referring to the subject of the thread, Abasin‘s affiliation or lack thereof.
Life is hard. Skiing is easy.

 

[Tricia]

I don't feel duped.

See my post that you partially quoted.

my comment about worrying was not directed at one person

It's not all about you. There are people who are voicing their feelings about being duped.
You and many others are worrying about parking and overcrowding.
There is a bunch of backlash from people crying out that A-Basin duped them and/or misled them.

You seem(emphasis on seem) to be taking every post criticizing those who are not happy with A-Basin's direction personally.

Obviously, the powers at A-Basin feel that getting off a multi resort pass that gives unlimited skiing at A-Basin and going to two pass alternatives that offer limited days will make a positive impact on the overcrowding.
At most, if someone gets both IKON and MCP they will have 9 days total at A-Basin.

 

[Wasatchman]

It's definitely not respectful to trivialize others concerns or to name call by labeling them whiners and complainers. It certainly makes no sense to me to tell people on a ski forum to quit worrying about ski resort related issues.

I'll say this again to make clear my point of view. While not the norm, I don't think it's controversial to say that last season had many days that were debacles of overcrowding. Al said himself he saw a problem and was making moves to try to fix it. Right now it's unknown what the cumulative effect will be of the changes he has made at ABasin. Things may indeed be better with the swaps of pass programs. I'm keeping an open mind about whether they'll add up to less cars and fewer times Lenawee and BMX have huge lines. But I don't blame people for caring enough to give Al a piece of their mind about how they perceive the changes. Not everyone was plugged in and many felt like this person who posted over on the blog:

Think you all need to climb down from those crosses and stop shaming people who are bummed out and feel burned by this decision. Believe it or not, I'm not following ski resort executive's blogs all day (I know, so weird); I didn't even know this existed until 2 days ago.
... ...
So yes, I'm sorry that I'm so "entitled" that I don't feel like I need to be waking up at 4:30 every morning I go skiing just to rush to the mountain so that I can snag one of the last 4 rows in the last chance lot after I've purchased a season pass. Stop with the shaming and acting like people have no right to be upset.
​

Why not just let this guy vent without all the name-calling? Why would anyone else feel a need to shut down the criticism? Isn't caring about that making one of your own problems what someone else thinks?

I share your thoughts. I am guessing that some on this thread are jealous of those who live in a mountain town, so they think I have to travel xyz and put up with crowds every day, so you shouldn't complain.

I unapolegtically don't like crowds. It's a catch-22, by default I have to take up space wherever I go, yet I don't like crowds. Yet people will just go on as this is self-entitled or hating tourists. People take it personally rather than understanding some of us don't like crowds and so we get disappointed when yet another of a favorite mountain joins a business model that brings more crowds. People mistake it as a locals versus tourist thing, when it's more about crowding concerns.

I get the benefit of multi-resort passes and enjoy them myself for what they are, I just wish not every single ski resort has to be on a Epic/Ikon pass like the way we're heading.

For now, understandably people traveling to ski resorts love it. I get why, just wish not every resort had to join the epic/Ikon duopoly which I think in the long run will suck for most consumers when it's fully played out, even the current fanboys.

So yeah, I'm guessing there are a number of people who share your sentiments but realize it's a losing battle to respond to the multi-pass fanboys lest you be branded a whiney douchebag. I give up. Carry on.......

Signed,

Wasatchman aka whiney douchebag

 

[skix]

Whining - when someone else complains about things you don't care about.
Righteous rant - when I complain about something that bothers me.
First world problems - a way to insult people complaining about anything not of national or world importance.

 

[Tricia]

Whining - when someone else complains about things you don't care about.
Righteous rant - when I complain about something that bothers me.
First world problems - a way to insult people complaining about anything not of national or world importance.

I get it, I really do. This is why I have an IKON pass and a Mt Rose pass.
You won't catch me skiing Squaw, or Alpine on holidays or Saturdays, but you'll likely see me at Rose.

It was never my intent to call anyone names, and I don't think I did. The reason I that I feel worrying was for naught is because it is what it is and we'll all still ski, many of us at A-Basin.

The primary things Alan made clear in his blogs about the separation from Epic, the urgency of getting a season pass if you want 8 or more days at A-Basin, and the announcement about IKON and MCP is that his biggest concern in making this move was that the Epic pass was creating an overcrowding issue. You have to think, being the smart man that he is, that this was taken into consideration when he negotiated with IKON and MCP.

We don't have the numbers from each of those passes, but you bet your sweet tushy Alan does.

I sincerely think this worry is for naught because my gut tells me the IKON impact won't be near what the Epic impact was, and there aren't many folks who get both the IKON and MCP.

 

[Wasatchman]

I get it, I really do. This is why I have an IKON pass and a Mt Rose pass.
You won't catch me skiing Squaw, or Alpine on holidays or Saturdays, but you'll likely see me at Rose.

It was never my intent to call anyone names, and I don't think I did. The reason I that worrying was for naught is because it is what it is and we'll all still ski, many of us at A-Basin.

The primary things Alan made clear in his blogs about the separation from Epic, the urgency of getting a season pass if you want 8 or more days at A-Basin, and the announcement about IKON and MCP is that his biggest concern in making this move was that the Epic pass was creating an overcrowding issue. You have to think, being the smart man that he is, that this was taken into consideration when he negotiated with IKON and MCP.

We don't have the numbers from each of those passes, but you bet your sweet tushy Alan does.

I sincerely think this worry is for naught because my gut tells me the IKON impact won't be near what the Epic impact was, and there aren't many folks who get both the IKON and MCP.

Just imagine how you'll feel when Vail buys Mt Rose. And any expression of disappointment is met with you're a whiney douchebag. Tricia, it's only a matter of time when it happens. I think the endgame is almost nothing will be left but Epic/Ikon.

I have never skied A-basin or know the stats, but I expect Ikon to bring it's fair share of crowds.

Regardless, one reason for disappointment was misguided optimism that A-basin pulling away from Epic represented hope some resorts were pulling away from trend of multi-pass to preserve an experience of less crowds. Nope, they went right into Ikon leaving less hope that at the end of this almost nothing will be spared of an Epic/Ikon duopoly.

 

[Philpug]

Just imagine how you'll feel when Vail buys Mt Rose. And any expression of disappointment is met with you're a whiney douchebag. Tricia, it's only a matter of time when it happens. I think the endgame is almost nothing will be left but Epic/Ikon.

I have never skied A-basin or know the stats, but I expect Ikon to bring it's fair share of crowds.

Regardless, one reason for disappointment was misguided optimism that A-basin pulling away from Epic represented hope some resorts were pulling away from trend of multi-pass to preserve an experience of less crowds. Nope, they went right into Ikon leaving less hope that at the end of this almost nothing will be spared of an Epic/Ikon duopoly.

Actually As far as I understand, Vail tried but like the A-basin/Vail relationship, they were turned down by having a monopoly in the Tahoe area. But, Ikon is a possibility and it wouldn't surprise me it it happens at some point. But as @Andy Mink said early on in the thread, Rose is already very crowded on powder days. Will I like it? Honestly YES! It will save us $500 x2 in passes since we already will have Ikon passes.

 

[KingGrump]

I am usually the dumb ass in the bunch. What I don't understand is if skiers days are flat, where are all these people coming from?
Some resort somewhere must be missing a whole bunch of skiers.

 

[Andy Mink]

Actually As far as I understand, Vail tried but like the A-basin/Vail relationship, they were turned down by having a monopoly in the Tahoe area. But, Ikon is a possibility and it wouldn't surprise me it it happens at some point. But as @Andy Mink said early on in the thread, Rose is already very crowded on powder days. Will I like it? Honestly YES! It will save us $500 x2 in passes since we already will have Ikon passes.

I have a hard time seeing Vail or Alterra looking too seriously at Mt. Rose. It's not a destination ski area, at least for most folks. It's not a resort in that it has no on-hill services other than food, rentals, and a tiny shop with stuff you might forget. I could see it going to a yet unnamed small area pass. Until then, it's two passes and deal with the crowds when they're there (or turn around and go do something else).

As @Philpug stated, Epic has a small monopoly in the Tahoe region. In that light, so does IKON. 3-2 (3-3 if you count Mammoth). I'd like to see a Tahoe small pass with several of the little areas on it.

 

[Tricia]

Just imagine how you'll feel when Vail buys Mt Rose. And any expression of disappointment is met with you're a whiney douchebag. Tricia, it's only a matter of time when it happens. I think the endgame is almost nothing will be left but Epic/Ikon.

I have never skied A-basin or know the stats, but I expect Ikon to bring it's fair share of crowds.

Regardless, one reason for disappointment was misguided optimism that A-basin pulling away from Epic represented hope some resorts were pulling away from trend of multi-pass to preserve an experience of less crowds. Nope, they went right into Ikon leaving less hope that at the end of this almost nothing will be spared of an Epic/Ikon duopoly.

For starters, let's get one thing clear. I never called anyone names, and I certainly didn't coin the phrase whiney douchebag.

My comments were merely that people shouldn't feel duped because Al was clear and that the term worried is being thrown around to much because worrying isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Second, I understand that Vail did try to buy Rose but there were issues with non compete.
If Rose went IKON I'd welcome it if it were unlimited because I'd save money on passes. If they went with the limited pass like they did for A-Basin, I'd be no where different than now because of the logistics of the IKON resorts in the Sierra.
If Squaw or Alpine are on wind hold, Mt Rose is absolutely going to be on wind hold.


I'm not saying that the IKON platform is the best thing for the industry, and I'm not saying that Epic is great for it either. What I'm saying is that we have three passes because of all that we do for this site, the travel and talks, and ski tests, and Hall of Fame stuff, and NASJA stuff....we get our money's worth out of Epic and IKON. The Rose pass is for us to test at home because its easier to switch out skis.

All that being said, the most disturbing thing I've met in this thread is that I'm being accused of name calling and I've never once called anyone any name, just painted a broad stroke on those who are claiming that they've been duped by Al and those who are "worried" about their A-Basin experience in the coming year.

 

[Wasatchman]

For starters, let's get one thing clear. I never called anyone names, and I certainly didn't coin the phrase whiney douchebag.

My comments were merely that people shouldn't feel duped because Al was clear and that the term worried is being thrown around to much because worrying isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Second, I understand that Vail did try to buy Rose but there were issues with non compete.
If Rose went IKON I'd welcome it if it were unlimited because I'd save money on passes. If they went with the limited pass like they did for A-Basin, I'd be no where different than now because of the logistics of the IKON resorts in the Sierra.
If Squaw or Alpine are on wind hold, Mt Rose is absolutely going to be on wind hold.


I'm not saying that the IKON platform is the best thing for the industry, and I'm not saying that Epic is great for it either. What I'm saying is that we have three passes because of all that we do for this site, the travel and talks, and ski tests, and Hall of Fame stuff, and NASJA stuff....we get our money's worth out of Epic and IKON. The Rose pass is for us to test at home because its easier to switch out skis.

All that being said, the most disturbing thing I've met in this thread is that I'm being accused of name calling and I've never once called anyone any name, just painted a broad stroke on those who are claiming that they've been duped by Al and those who are "worried" about their A-Basin experience in the coming year.

I apologise if you took my response as accusing you of using that name/terminology. That was not my intention.

I simply was trying to express how I feel (and I suspect others) about being attacked as self-entitled, whiney, etc. for expressing displeasure at some of the recent Alterra/Vail moves.

Not worth getting into, but the phrase whiney douchebagwas used in another thread by another member.. I'm not that sensitive about it.

But I see @tball and @skix and others get attacked a little bit on this thread and so I couldn't help but interject a bit.

I was in the same boat as you, had an Epic pass and a pass to an independent. All of a sudden, DV, Altabird, SolBright all get aligned with Ikon in one year. Then Snowbasin recently aligns with Vail. Now you just about can't avoid multi-pass in Utah at all, and I'm thinking it's getting out of hand. Frustrating that displeasure gets misconstrued as anti-tourist, self-entitled, etc.

I decided not worth going on about, those people attacking are going to think what they want, etc. Then I saw attacks on others on this thread and couldn't help but interject.

The post was not meant to accuse you of the attacks, but merely say imagine if you were disappointed your home mountain succumbs to Epic and Icon but any disappointment you expressed on PugSki was met with the derision.

I am not looking to get in any pissing matches, and as I said, I had decided wasn't worth me going on about but couldn't help but interject when. I saw the same thing happening on this thread (again not accusing you personally).

 

[Ski&ride]

The reality is, people are ticked off at Arapahoe Basin because they feel duped into buying an A-Basin pass.
....
What those, supposedly duped, people can do to take control is:

• Go somewhere else to ski
• Get up earlier to get better parking
• Get there around noon to snag parking from someone leaving

We’re talking about people who bought a-basin season pass?

They can’t go elsewhere!

They’ll have to suck it up and work their schedule around the potential parking issues. An issue a-basin marketing team said was the motivation to separate from Vail.

I can understand they felt being misled. Or being led down.

Yep! They’ve been duped. And they don’t like to be told they should have read the marketing blob more carefully. (or should never even believe in any of it in the first place) t

 

[mikel]

We’re talking about people who bought a-basin season pass? They can’t go elsewhere!

"Arapahoe Basin Season Pass Holders will now get 3 free days of skiing at one of Colorado's coolest resorts, Monarch Mountain."

 

[Ken_R]

We’re talking about people who bought a-basin season pass?

potential parking issues. An issue a-basin marketing team said was the motivation to separate from Vail.

Yep, Al did mention that. So like Susan said, they wanted to cut off from the unlimited Epic pass to mellow out the place in regards to crowds but didnt want to go cold turkey. Joining the 7 day only Ikon pass might or might not change the crowding situation. We will have to see. It will certainly have an effect, as will snow conditions. I would not bet on A Basin being all of the sudden mellow though. At least not most days.

 

[HardDaysNight]

We’re talking about people who bought a-basin season pass?

They can’t go elsewhere!

They’ll have to suck it up and work their schedule around the potential parking issues. An issue a-basin marketing team said was the motivation to separate from Vail.

I can understand they felt being misled. Or being led down.

Yep! They’ve been duped. And they don’t like to be told they should have read the marketing blob more carefully. (or should never even believe in any of it in the first place) t

Don’t have any dog in this fight, thank God, but this is pretty obviously true. Good luck to all!

 

[SBrown]

I am usually the dumb ass in the bunch. What I don't understand is if skiers days are flat, where are all these people coming from?
Some resort somewhere must be missing a whole bunch of skiers.

As @nay has pointed out, parking issues aren't the same as on-hill issues. I don't think these people actually get onto the hill. They just mess up traffic and parking, then ... I'm not sure. Buy overpriced meals and drinks and go home, then post on instagram how rad the day was?

 

[SBrown]

We’re talking about people who bought a-basin season pass?

They can’t go elsewhere!

They’ll have to suck it up and work their schedule around the potential parking issues. An issue a-basin marketing team said was the motivation to separate from Vail.

I can understand they felt being misled. Or being led down.

Yep! They’ve been duped. And they don’t like to be told they should have read the marketing blob more carefully. (or should never even believe in any of it in the first place) t

And it's the opinion of many others that no one was duped or misled. If you are going to read the headline, maybe you should also read the rest of the story. Yes, it was stated that parking was an issue. It was also stated that ABasin was looking at joining another pass. You can't read one thing and ignore the other. There was a lot of wishful thinking, and yes, people are disappointed. But that's because of selective hearing, not because they were tricked. And I'm now done with this.

(I am using the term "you" as a generalization -- as in "one" -- not as a specific person.)

 

[mdf]

As @nay has pointed out, parking issues aren't the same as on-hill issues. I don't think these people actually get onto the hill. They just mess up traffic and parking, then ... I'm not sure. Buy overpriced meals and drinks and go home, then post on instagram how rad the day was?

I noticed that at Loon in New Hampshire last year. The parking was insane, and it was difficult to find a spot for lunch or, in the evening at a restaurant for dinner. Yet, other than the first run or two out of the base in the morning, there were no crowds on the hill.

 

[James]

People are looking for something to be outraged over. Pretty simple, ski more than 7 days at Abay, buy a pass. I don't get the problem.
Buy Soldier Mountain in Idaho for $800k if you want your own area.