Anyone switched from a 4 buckle overlap to 3-piece boot?

[givethepigeye]

What was your experience? Are you still in them?

I have a pretty large instep parameter w/ narrow foot. Add a very pronounced tendon (see picture) which is getting larger due to constant contact with shell when flexing and then scar tissue starting to build. It is right exactly where the lower clog makes the turn up. Have visited several nationally known bootftters - has not been solved for. We have cut away tongue, padded to make a channel, planed bootboard, ground shell to make any type of room. Nothing has worked long term. In a Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130, which is great with this BIG exception. Have been in Nordica Patron Pro (same issue) and Lange RX130 LV - too much volume

The last bootfitter I visited said really the only sure path forward is a 3-piece, but the Dalbello 98, 130 flex boot was pretty much unobtainium this late in the season in a 27.5 and really were all year.

So, interested in anyone's feedback on this potential change.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....I have a pretty large instep parameter w/ narrow foot. Add a very pronounced tendon (see picture) which is getting larger due to constant contact with shell when flexing and then scar tissue starting to build. It is right exactly where the lower clog makes the turn up. Have visited several nationally known bootftters - has not been solved for. We have cut away tongue, padded to make a channel, planed bootboard, ground shell to make any type of room. Nothing has worked long term. In a Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130, which is great with this BIG exception. Have been in Nordica Patron Pro (same issue) and Lange RX130 LV - too much volume....

I'm curious about how you have ended up in a "Low Volume" boot. You have a tall instep, and your lower leg at its bottom has a very wide diameter.

I've always thought that with a "Low Volume" boot, the top of the clog, over the instep, is low and the lowest part of the cuff is narrow. Seems like you need a boot that's tall over the instep and wide around the bottom of the lower leg, exactly the opposite of what you currently have. If your current boot is too narrow around the bottom of your lower leg, and too short over your tall instep, that might cause the painful pinch you're dealing with.

Did you choose that boot because it's narrow enough for the rest of your foot, and because it was the only boot you could find that was narrow enough for the rest of your foot?

 

[givethepigeye]

@LiquidFeet - this is what happens in a more generous 97mm last (you can see what brand it is) - couldn't even fathom what a 100mm would be like. Also have a fairly skinny lower leg. It's the instep that is high and the instep parameter that measures longer than my foot is.

 

[MAB]

I recently made the change from an overlap to cabrio. I have only skied them for five days so far, and some of those I ended up switching over to my old boot, so I can't really say much about them at this point other than give my first impressions. I went from a 25 Tecnica Cochise 120 to a 24 Dalbello KR Pro 130, so in addition to the change in boot style, I am also getting used to a smaller and narrower boot with a pretty close shell fit and the difficulties that go along with that on the first few days of skiing. Also, other than the first day I was on them, I have been skiing them on very warm powder days with heavy, wet snow. All that said, so far I have mixed-feelings. I too have a high instep, and these are the first boots I have skied in a long time that don't put my feet to sleep, so that is a huge plus. I have found them to be softer than I like (might have been the the warm temperature as I didn't really notice this on the first day I had them out, when it was about 20 degrees), which has forced me to ski with a more neutral stance than I am used to, because every time I leaned forward the tongue felt like it was being crushed, and I ended up sticking my butt out and getting in the back seat to stop myself from feeling like I was going to go over the handle bars. I also felt like they Dalbellos made it harder for me to get my skis on edge than my Tecnicas, or maybe it was slower, hard to say, but either way I felt like tipping my ankles to carve didn't work like I am used to. Again, this could have been related to the warm temperatures. Finally, I felt like I was getting bucked around more than normal in crud and chop, but this might have been related to my change in stance and not being able to rely on resting my weight on the tongue of the boot (maybe a crutch?). I will say that as I have gotten used to them, this feeling has started to go away as I get used to centering myself where they want to be skied.

 

[Josh Matta]

@MAB what tongue are you running, and what plugs do you have in?

 

[givethepigeye]

@MAB thanks - this is kind of what I was looking for. I really dread having to go through "the process" again. Maybe I could just do a MV as @LiquidFeet said and get foamed - like a lot of foam....... by somebody that has done thousands - since I went that way once with these shells and it turned out horribly.

 

[Josh Matta]

Id hold the thought till he answers my question.....

The Kr pro flex can go from about 90 to 130 with included parts, and up past 150 with an A tongue and plugs...

One thing to take note off as well is the KR2 is slightly toed in, where as the Cochise is slightly ducked out.......This can really affect a person's needed CANTing.

 

[MAB]

I am running the B tongue as it came set up out of the box, which I think is the stiffest it can be with the parts that come in the box Is that right? As for the canting, one of the reasons I am moving away from the Cochise is because it exacerbated my very slight bow-leggedness. The bootfitter checked and said he didn't think canting was necessary with the Dalbellos. Actually, one of the things I noticed with them is that my skis seem to be running flatter. I have also been thinking about going to the chip that has the least forward lean to see if that helps with any of this.

@givethepigeye I think going through the process again is the best way to describe it. Ultimately, I think I will like the new boots, but they will take some getting used to.

 

[David Chaus]

I went the other way, from a cabrio to a a 4 buckle overlap. I was however, tempted by the Salomon QST Pro, which is kind of a hybrid. The tongue design might work for you, and for myself at least, as a low volume foot person, the overall fit was pretty good.

I think I saw a post where @nay got the QST.

 

[otto]

givethepigeye, any interest in solving the root cause of a tendon that pops out when you flex forward? I am sure that the professional fitter that duct taped the eva foam to your Lange liner could settle that tendon down by seeing what the ROM in your ankle looks like and shuffling your ramp angle to accommodate...

 

[coskigirl]

I went the other way, from a cabrio to a a 4 buckle overlap. I was however, tempted by the Salomon QST Pro, which is kind of a hybrid. The tongue design might work for you, and for myself at least, as a low volume foot person, the overall fit was pretty good.

I think I saw a post where @nay got the QST.

I have the QST Pro and really like them. I also had the Dalbello Kyra ID which is a 3 buckle boot. Both are far better over my instep than anything else I’ve had.

 

[givethepigeye]

givethepigeye, any interest in solving the root cause of a tendon that pops out when you flex forward? I am sure that the professional fitter that duct taped the eva foam to your Lange liner could settle that tendon down by seeing what the ROM in your ankle looks like and shuffling your ramp angle to accommodate...

Go on. What are your thoughts?

Several bootfitters that are pretty well known have done the whole ROM assessment thing. I have some limited dorsiflexion and have a heel lift - this actually exacerbates the issue since it closes the distance between foot and bend in shell. In fact, the last bootfitter suggested taking them out, since my ROM "wasn't that bad" and the boot has some ramp built in. Skied 1/2 day, felt like wasn't as planted on the tongue as I was previously, quads burning and put them back in - all good again. Bindings = Look Pivots, so neutral there.

 

[Tricia]

What was your experience? Are you still in them?

I have a pretty large instep parameter w/ narrow foot. Add a very pronounced tendon (see picture) which is getting larger due to constant contact with shell when flexing and then scar tissue starting to build. It is right exactly where the lower clog makes the turn up. Have visited several nationally known bootftters - has not been solved for. We have cut away tongue, padded to make a channel, planed bootboard, ground shell to make any type of room. Nothing has worked long term. In a Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130, which is great with this BIG exception. Have been in Nordica Patron Pro (same issue) and Lange RX130 LV - too much volume

The last bootfitter I visited said really the only sure path forward is a 3-piece, but the Dalbello 98, 130 flex boot was pretty much unobtainium this late in the season in a 27.5 and really were all year.

So, interested in anyone's feedback on this potential change.

View attachment 42693

Your foot looks low volume overall, but your vamp(instep) looks pretty significant.
Do you know the actual measurement of that area?
You *may* be able to fit into a moldable boot like the Fischer Vacuum or some such

 

[Philpug]

Bode Miller to the White Courtesy phone

 

[Ken_R]

What was your experience? Are you still in them?

I have a pretty large instep parameter w/ narrow foot. Add a very pronounced tendon (see picture) which is getting larger due to constant contact with shell when flexing and then scar tissue starting to build. It is right exactly where the lower clog makes the turn up. Have visited several nationally known bootftters - has not been solved for. We have cut away tongue, padded to make a channel, planed bootboard, ground shell to make any type of room. Nothing has worked long term. In a Tecnica Mach 1 LV 130, which is great with this BIG exception. Have been in Nordica Patron Pro (same issue) and Lange RX130 LV - too much volume

The last bootfitter I visited said really the only sure path forward is a 3-piece, but the Dalbello 98, 130 flex boot was pretty much unobtainium this late in the season in a 27.5 and really were all year.

So, interested in anyone's feedback on this potential change.

View attachment 42693

Dang! With that high instep I would avoid traditional low volume 4 buckle overlap boots. Just getting your feet into them alone should be very very tough with that instep. I would go with a boot that has a shell that fits well in that particular area and then fill the rest with a foam in liner or an Intuition Style liner (Power Wrap maybe?) that has enough foam to fill the gaps and be modded where you need the space if the heat molding process is not enough.

From your image it just seems impossible to get a boot that fits well your low volume foot and skinny calves but have enough material to stretch out where the instep is. That is just asking too much of plastic imho.

 

[Josh Matta]

Bode Miller to the White Courtesy phone

Except the OG full tilts are AWFULLLLLL.... they are noodles. The Descendant is a far better boot though.

 

[ted]

If you try 3 pieces on, for your issue, I would certainly consider the Head Hammer. The buckle placement makes much more sense for avoiding pressure on your problem area than the Dalbello and Full tilt buckles. Don't know much else about the Hammer but as a high instep sufferer myself, buckle location is critical. Another idea would be to try a plug style boot in a longer size ala this train of thought-

fit-issues-and-myths

 

[Josh Matta]

I am running the B tongue as it came set up out of the box, which I think is the stiffest it can be with the parts that come in the box Is that right? As for the canting, one of the reasons I am moving away from the Cochise is because it exacerbated my very slight bow-leggedness. The bootfitter checked and said he didn't think canting was necessary with the Dalbellos. Actually, one of the things I noticed with them is that my skis seem to be running flatter. I have also been thinking about going to the chip that has the least forward lean to see if that helps with any of this.

@givethepigeye I think going through the process again is the best way to describe it. Ultimately, I think I will like the new boots, but they will take some getting used to.

Yep B is the stiffest that the boot comes with. A tongues exist but are extremely hard to find.


those little shims that say 4 and 8 on them adjust forward lean and also make the boot stiffer. Just realize that if the liner was molded with out them in, it cna be really painful to just throw them in, you may need to spot treat the back part of the liner if you choose to use them.

As for alignment slightly bow legged is good. It may be worth exploring moving the cuffs on your KR2 so they go outwards.

 

[givethepigeye]

@Tricia - I'll measure when I get home. It's longer than my foot measures - I know that. Also, that picture makes it look freakish - it isn't.

Bootfitter suggested the Dalbello 130 w/ intuition liner. Didn't have one and actually called around to see if anyone in UT had one. He also sells Head - never mentioned the Head Hammer.

Anyone have anything else? Like the differences in how the 3-piece skis vs. overlap. How easy was it to move setup from one boot to the next i.e. Forward lean, bootboard angle, and all that other stuff.

 

[givethepigeye]

@Tricia - 30cm to backish of heel - I think I measure out on the blue lange metal thing @28-28.5. 27.5 seems to be the consensus across multiple fitters for shell size. The Tecnica 27.5s and Patrons Pro before were 27.5s. The first boot I ever bought were 27.5 Salomon Falcons (yes, with my instep). I've tried a 26. Lange RS 130 once and couldn't get it on. I could get the Salomon moldable shell one on in a 26 (the Empire Storm Trooper white boot).