You Drive Three Hours to See a Bootfitter!?!

[L&AirC]

This is an awesome write up, thank you for sharing. As someone with difficult feet, I often times find myself skiing in pain for most of the day. I've had a lot of work done on my boots but they are not perfect, but because they are only a couple of years old I'm hesitant to invest in another pair. I'm hoping that working on my form will help lessen the foot pain.

Can someone try to share when adding a heel lift is necessary? Should your heel never leave the bottom of your boot?

I'm reading into what you wrote a bit. I don't believe heel lifts are to take up the space in your boot so your heel can't leave the bottom. I have limited dorsiflexion so my dorsiflexion range of motion is shorter than the average. The heel lift lets me work in the range that is most beneficial to skiing (fully forward and back instead of 3/4th of the way there and back. Using my amateurish drawing below, if the black triangle is my foot and shin angle and the red line represents my max dorsiflexion, you can see that "IF" a heel lift was installed and my foot was seated on it (in the picture it is above it because I suck at making drawings), I would have the same range of motion, but the red line would be more forward. Try to picture the black triangle with the base of is sitting on the heel lift instead of hovering above it. The whole thing would tilt forward a couple degrees.

In "my" limited understanding of this craft, if your heel is coming up, it could be because your instep is too large, or the pocket for your heel is packed out or not a match for your foot. In my Langes, the heel hold is a like a vise! Maybe more like a bear trap. The grip it has on my achilles tendon is just this side of uncomfortable. Another day or two skiing and all will be good. I don't think I can get my heel off my insole without unbuckling my boots and I LOVE IT!

Heel should never leave the bottom of the boot. Right.
Boot fit can make this impossible to accomplish, if the volume or length of the boot is wrong for your foot.

Or Left

 

[whumber]

Teryn, but she introduced herself as Terry. At least that's what I heard but according to my wife, I'm partially deaf.

I'll have to ask her, we're locker mates at Killington. She's been really stoked about bootfitting all season.

 

[James]

Is Bill/GMOL back at Stratton? Where?He was at Bromley for years.

I used to drive 2 hrs to Edgewise in Stowe to get skis tuned. Once in a Blizzard. That was a little crazy. That's after the 3.5-4 getting to VT. Plus, you have to go back to pick them up.
I could've thrown a dead cat through the window of 4 ski shops that tuned skis locally.

 

[Steve]

1:50 each way to see Nick Blaylock @ Mount Snow Bootworks. Well worth it. Now if only they had VIP passes they could let customers use during a fitting to ski.

 

[otto]

I'm reading into what you wrote a bit. I don't believe heel lifts are to take up the space in your boot so your heel can't leave the bottom. I have limited dorsiflexion so my dorsiflexion range of motion is shorter than the average. The heel lift lets me work in the range that is most beneficial to skiing (fully forward and back instead of 3/4th of the way there and back. Using my amateurish drawing below, if the black triangle is my foot and shin angle and the red line represents my max dorsiflexion, you can see that "IF" a heel lift was installed and my foot was seated on it (in the picture it is above it because I suck at making drawings), I would have the same range of motion, but the red line would be more forward. Try to picture the black triangle with the base of is sitting on the heel lift instead of hovering above it. The whole thing would tilt forward a couple degrees.


View attachment 70326

In "my" limited understanding of this craft, if your heel is coming up, it could be because your instep is too large, or the pocket for your heel is packed out or not a match for your foot. In my Langes, the heel hold is a like a vise! Maybe more like a bear trap. The grip it has on my achilles tendon is just this side of uncomfortable. Another day or two skiing and all will be good. I don't think I can get my heel off my insole without unbuckling my boots and I LOVE IT!



Or Left

As a ski instructor and a coach, it is the most important part of the boot set-up for you to understand. Your argument works to prove that raising your own heel locks your foot to the bottom of the boot, not that it gives you more forward lean. Balancing the ankles ROM by matching the net forward lean ( which is found by subtracting the ramp angle of the bootboard from the forward lean angle of the shell ) is the key move to allow a skier with limited range of motion or excessive range of motion to get the boot to respond with the least amount of movement to direct and recenter the body over your feet while skiing. In both cases you are able to get more input to the ski with less effort and less overuse of the big muscles in the body. So to be clear in your case the heel lift does increase your range, however it actually straightens up the lower leg, so you get more work done in the turn while standing taller. This can be amplified by removing any forward lean wedge shim on the liner or shell, using a stiffer boot, as well as using a booster strap to draw the front of the boot to the shin. The secondary fit benefit of this move allows you to pressure the ski without "levering" the heel off the snow.

 

[L&AirC]

Is Bill/GMOL back at Stratton? Where?He was at Bromley for years.

I used to drive 2 hrs to Edgewise in Stowe to get skis tuned. Once in a Blizzard. That was a little crazy. That's after the 3.5-4 getting to VT. Plus, you have to go back to pick them up.
I could've thrown a dead cat through the window of 4 ski shops that tuned skis locally.

Link to the site with address. No longer at Bromley. His shop is at the turn onto the Stratton entrance.

http://www.gmolfoot.com/

 

[L&AirC]

As a ski instructor and a coach, it is the most important part of the boot set-up for you to understand. Your argument works to prove that raising your own heel locks your foot to the bottom of the boot, not that it gives you more forward lean. Balancing the ankles ROM by matching the net forward lean ( which is found by subtracting the ramp angle of the bootboard from the forward lean angle of the shell ) is the key move to allow a skier with limited range of motion or excessive range of motion to get the boot to respond with the least amount of movement to direct and recenter the body over your feet while skiing. In both cases you are able to get more input to the ski with less effort and less overuse of the big muscles in the body. So to be clear in your case the heel lift does increase your range, however it actually straightens up the lower leg, so you get more work done in the turn while standing taller. This can be amplified by removing any forward lean wedge shim on the liner or shell, using a stiffer boot, as well as using a booster strap to draw the front of the boot to the shin. The secondary fit benefit of this move allows you to pressure the ski without "levering" the heel off the snow.

Otto,
Thanks for clarifying this. At first I was having a hard time getting my head wrapped around what you were saying until I realized I made two errors in my thinking. 1 was that going back to a previous thread when I talked about not having a heel lift, one of the comments I got from fellow coaches was that I wasn't skiing like I normally do and I was back and I felt like I was being held back. Once corrected the issue went away, therefore I must now be forward, so the heel lift helped me get more forward. The other mistake was when I made my amatuerish drawings in the previous post, I did them wrong and that reinforced my first error. I used the "Paint" program and I used a "right triangle" tool thinking I would just have to rotate it (which you can't do in that program). Had I considered drawing the set up in an actual boot that is clicked into a binding, I would like to believe I would have realized my error because I should have noticed it created a gap at the calf/shell intersection and the opposite at the tongue.

So the real answer (I hope) is that the heel lift opens the ankle (like someone wearing high heels) without moving them back (stands taller). With the booster strap cinched down (no gap in the cuff), the skier's useable ankle ROM would increase. Making up numbers, if without a heel lift I was able to go from 85* (open ankle angle) to 75* (closed ankle angle) and with the heel lift I would get something like 89* to 75*. Again, the degree of the angles I picked are PIDOOMAs but I would think them to be fairly close. I'm also guessing that the closed angle a skier could get to would remain the same as the only mod was to open the ankle giving a couple more degrees of ROM.

Let me know if I need to stay after class or if I got it correct.

Thanks again!

Ken

 

[bbinder]

I’ve driven 3.5 hours. I’ve flown 5 hours. In a month I going to fly 4.5 hours and then drive 2. Depending on traffic.

 

[wallyk]

The entire thread makes me grateful that I have the easiest foot to fit. Lange must have used Russian spy technology to have secretly created a 3-D image of my foot for their size 26 XR and RX shell molds.....interesting to see what people are willing to endure to get a proper fit..... Hope these men and women fitters charge accordingly!!!!

Now that I wrote this, my next pair of boots will be an impossible fit!!!

 

[Wilhelmson]

Especially given that with OP's location he probably has 40 shops that are less than 3 hours away.

 

[Near Nyquist]

Especially given that with OP's location he probably has 40 shops that are less than 3 hours away.

40 shops that can't get stuff correct like GMOL can.

When you need it done right the first time you go see the boot whisperer

 

[James]

Well he's been going to the same one for years. It's odd, all those gmol webpages are the same as like 18 years ago.

 

[EricG]

Well he's been going to the same one for years. It's odd, all those gmol webpages are the same as like 18 years ago.

Retro.. all the pictures are Circa 1991. I guess they keep their web costs low by just updating the address on landing page.

 

[nd_1975]

Retro.. all the pictures are Circa 1991. I guess they keep their web costs low by just updating the address on landing page.

Does anyone know which boot lines GMOL carries?

 

[L&AirC]

Especially given that with OP's location he probably has 40 shops that are less than 3 hours away.

Exactly. I work right next to two and have to drive by another to get to work. I’ve been to several when I first started skiing. Some are OK and/or pretty good at certain things. Others I’ve walked out of. You also have to consider the demographic they are supporting. Mostly they just have to make the boots not hurt and they are considered a hero.

There isn’t a profession out there that doesn’t have the very worst to the very best representing it. Most are just trying to do the best they can in the environment they’re in.

 

[HateBoilerplate]

Last week on my trip to Breckenridge, I went to a boot fitter (one of the most highly recommended in Breckenridge) to see about adjusting my boots to fit better. It was really interesting to see them measure people's angles and adjustments to a fraction of a degree of precision, examine their foot structure and tell them (correctly) the sort of pain they're having and how to deal with it, create custom foot beds specifically contoured for the individual wearer's foot, and do all sorts of scientific measurements to determine the best way to fit their boots.

Meanwhile, I got some flunky that randomly added and removed stuff from my boots without ever measuring more than the length of my feet, and after skiing for a day on what he setup, my toes were all purple and my feet hurt like hell.

So while it CAN be amazing to go a long way to a boot fitter, let's not all pretend that every boot fitter, or even every employee of the SAME boot fitter is capable of providing the same quality of service. I'd have traveled to Breckenridge for the services I saw 3 other customers get. If I'd have traveled that far specifically for that service and got the kid I got, I'd have blown a gasket.

 

[Sibhusky]

It's definitely the fitter. Not the shop. And most times you'll need an appointment to see them.

 

[EricG]

Meanwhile, I got some flunky that randomly added and removed stuff from my boots without ever measuring more than the length of my feet, and after skiing for a day on what he setup, my toes were all purple and my feet hurt like hell.

.

That sucks, but it happens a lot.

Thus the reason we travel to a specific person, not just a shop. I'm lucky to live near a no BS boot guy and he has taken great care of me. Most of the good guys are pretty much booked solid and appointments are required. I try to get my boot work done before season starts, otherwise I know it will be 2-3 weeks before I can get an appointment.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

We go to see Nick every Columbus weekend for the pre season boot set up, see what adjustments need to be made, etc. This year it's new boots for me. Nick books up fast so I make the appointment sometime in September for Colubmus weekend which is their opening weekend.

 

[Joe Strummer]

I'm guessing heat moldable boot shells and heat moldable liners will put many a bootfitter out of business.