Win on Sunday, Sell Skis on Monday! (The "prop or stunt" skis anyway lol)

[Muleski]

Agree, @Primoz. I can't be too critical of Thomas in some respects, as the guy had a lot of WC starts, and that's more than 99.999% of us here. BUT, he was probably the most notorious equipment "fiddler" on the USST and on the WC circuit. Doing things exactly like this. I thought it was borderline nuts, when he'd be throwing on Duct Tape, and even electric tape, convinced that he could feel the difference that particular day. Maybe he could. Maybe all in his head. He was just as bad {or good} with boots. And I guess it worked to a large degree for his ex wife, though there was always a lot of friction. More so with the boot tech.

But, yes, take a 2mm shim off the binding, put it on a belt sander, give yourself the 0.5mm of wiggle room and then screw around with a layer or two of such tape here and there. But don't get DQ'd for stand height.

Mike does not care......correct. You measure or you don't.

 

[QueueCT]

On the ski for kid racer front, my girls (1st year U12) don't care what the pros are using. They see what their friends (those that are good or those that are popular) use and pine after those. Then I make the decision based on cost because they're not good enough that I'm worrying about which brand of ski they're on for GS or SL. They can shave multiple seconds off their run times with technique and line changes.

They wanted slip skis because some of the other kids use them. I told them I would only do so when everything else was dialed in and the only way to get the extra time was to ensure wax and edges were perfect. Don't know if that will ever happen.

 

[BGreen]

I’m a fan of cellophane packing tape. It doesn’t compress. Seven layers equals a quarter degree.

 

[K2 Rat]

@K2 Rat yeah but those things are ridiculous. There's absolutely no need for this 0.5mm difference that on the end could disqualify you due non regulation matching equipment, and those 0.5mm won't bring any difference in speed/time. But it's true some racers want to have their equipment on limit,but it's tricky... Some burned base during race and you are over limi. And Mike (FIS guy checking this in finish) doesn't give a sh**t your skis were fine on start and you are 0.01mm over limit due base burn. You are over limit and you are out. With living 0.5mm extra you are safe and just as fast.

i agree it is ridiculous. I don't think a strip or 2 of tape got Vonn his best results ever. And like you said, why cut it that close . Outside of him, I have not heard of any dq's due to equipment. Have there been many? Any ever blamed as result of base burn ? That would stink !!

 

[Muleski]

There are, I bet, about a half dozen DQ's a year. Often people not close to the podium.

Couple of years ago Erik Read of DU and Canada had a WC GS start at Beaver Creek, finished well and then measured over 1mm high. Nobody was pleased: his dad, CAST, his coach at DU.

 

[Primoz]

A friend of mine was DQ in Kitz few years ago when he was second or third (don't remember now) for being less then 0.5mm too high. I was talking with his tech after that and he said his skis were on limit, but inside of it, on start, and there was lot of burned bases that year, so base burn is only explanation why he was too high in finish but fine on start.
Otherwise there's quite lot of these issues. It's less now, but few years ago, there were several each year.

 

[Primoz]

@Muleski I don't blame Vonn or any other racer for that. I understand them. They invest so much into this, so if they believe using every single 0.1mm will make them faster, it's quite normal thing to use it. It's more on serviceman side, who will always be guilty one on the end anyway, to convince them that 0.5mm lower won't change a thing. But this needs to be done during trainings already not day before race.

 

[Muleski]

@Primoz, I agree. If it's I their head that it makes a difference, and it makes them faster.....go for it. But somebody ought to be on top of it and measuring that it's "on the nose" can cut it too close. Base burn makes sense.

Can recall who it was, but a few years ago somebody was DQ's because the waist of the ski was too narrow. I don't know how they measure that. Base width to topsheet. The explanation that I heard was they they were speed skis, and they had a lot of edge removed, the sidewalls pulled a ton, and I assume the top sheets sanded and shaped {but at the waist, under the boot?}.

For whatever reason.....they skis were quite a bit off. Can't recall who. I want to say a woman too........

 

[Bart Parnell]

I assume that base burn must swell and add a fraction of a mm to stand height? I never realized....

If they are that fussy then do they calibrate the measuring tools and measure only at a consistent temperature and humidity? Micrometer or a "C" shaped device? Seems arguable.

 

[BGreen]

the waist of the ski was too narrow. I don't know how they measure that.

http://www.skitec.eu/en_radius.php

EDIT: I can’t find a picture of the current version. It’s much more elegant, but the concept is the same.

 

[Muleski]

Not much that I have never seen. That is one! Thanks for the post!

So where is that measuring? I can't tell. Edge or sidewall?

 

[Primoz]

@Muleski that's easy one. For everything but slalom they measure skis on tip, tail and on most narrow part of ski (somewhere under boot). First to get radius (what manufacturers write on topsheet doesn't matter), and second to see if width is inside of limits. I'm not 100% sure now, but I think with SL you have minimum or max. width under boot, and with other disciplines it's the opposite (plus if I remember right, it's also min or max width at tip). So it's actually how wide is ski under the boot. And with filling ski through the year, you actually change radius of ski (if GS ski is exactly on 30m as new, it can be you will come under 30m when you file off enough of edge), and you can hit limit and be too narrow.

 

[Muleski]

@Muleski that's easy one. For everything but slalom they measure skis on tip, tail and on most narrow part of ski (somewhere under boot). First to get radius (what manufacturers write on topsheet doesn't matter), and second to see if width is inside of limits. I'm not 100% sure now, but I think with SL you have minimum or max. width under boot, and with other disciplines it's the opposite (plus if I remember right, it's also min or max width at tip). So it's actually how wide is ski under the boot. And with filling ski through the year, you actually change radius of ski (if GS ski is exactly on 30m as new, it can be you will come under 30m when you file off enough of edge), and you can hit limit and be too narrow.

My question was where in terms of width? The edges? The sidewall? The topsheet.
I've always assumed the edges.......
Looks that way on @BGreen's "machine."

Thanks......

 

[Primoz]

So where is that measuring? I can't tell. Edge or sidewall?

Always edge to edge. You put ski upside down (topsheet down), take beam gauge (I guess that's english word for it), and measure how wide is ski at certain place. That means edges included, but sidewall doesn't matter, as it's more narrow then edge anyway.

 

[Primoz]

Sorry didn't check link. Would save myself trying to figure out bunch of new english words Exactly like it's on those photos Edge to edge on ptex side of course.

 

[Muleski]

Thanks....what I assumed. The "story" that I had heard never made sense to me. Must have been good fiction as who would care about the sidewalls, let alone the top sheet. Only thing that matters is what's in contact with the snow.

Heck, not long ago I was writing things like "R> 45M" in Sharpie on some older speed skis. Close enough at most levels.....

 

[BGreen]

Not much that I have never seen. That is one! Thanks for the post!

So where is that measuring? I can't tell. Edge or sidewall?

I can’t find a picture of the current version, but it sits flat on the base and is spring loaded. Measurement is taken at the edges according to the FIS side cut formulas. There is a minimum width for all disciplines. It’s a bit like the stack height in that location isn’t specified, just the ski can’t be any narrower than x or wider than y.

I can’t find the current rules, but it FIS Specifications For Competition Equipment and Commercial Markings, section 1.2.1.2. Speed and GS skis have to be ≤ 65mm, slalom skis have to be ≥ 63mm. IIRC at the time of the disqualification you reference, speed skis had to be ≥ 65 mm.

 

[YolkyPalky]

yup, I am aware. I was given Marcel's "podium skis" that you see him holding here after winning Levi SL in 2013. They are a detuned rec SL ski in 176cm and actually a pretty nice ski. An Austrian lawyer friend did a real estate deal with Marcel and his lawyer gave the skis/bindings as a gift to my friend. He knew they would mean more to me than him. View attachment 39515

Wow that's so cool! Did you use them for skiing? I would probably geek out and try to get Marcel to sign them with a sharpie and make them wall art lol.

 

[K2 Rat]

Wow that's so cool! Did you use them for skiing? I would probably geek out and try to get Marcel to sign them with a sharpie and make them wall art lol.

I ski on them on occasion. Have not so far this year, but may need to bring them out in honor of Marcel and the Olympics !

 

[GregK]

I have always noticed the quick switch off from the actual racing skis into more tv friendly "get the ski logo and racer's face in the shot" skis. As was mentioned earlier, the mogul, halfpipe and slopestyle skis are usually the actual consumer skis and there is definitely the same "I want the same skis as ______" in the world of young freestyle skiers. When I switched recently from some Armada skis to Head Framewalls, a younger friend of mine said "oh, you got Jesper Tjader skis!" so it's just like racing skis to all those young racers.

Slopestyle and 1/2 pipe riders feature Volkl, Head, Atomic, K2 and Faction as the most common sponsors with some Armada, Moment, 4Frnt, Liberty etc thrown in there as well. Volkl Revolt 87 used by all 3 podium winners last night on the men's slopestyle so a huge win for Volkl. The thing that made me chuckle is that American Nick Geopper even had rivets on his ski tips which is a cheap way of repairing skis that have delaminated tips so you get a "few more days" out of your park skis. So he must be REALLY trying to get the starving student demographic. lol