why so many Volkl skis +-170mm for shortest available length?

[Hankj]

My 13 year old kid is gaga about her Volkl Revolt 95's. They are relatively flexy, heavy, very long effective edge for length. Stable, forgiving, grippy and fun. Forced her under protest to let mom ski them for one run on our 5 day trip to Red Mountain with 3 other families. Mom loves them too.

Kid loves them so much she won't ski anything else even if the short and low-tipped Revolt 95's are overwhelmed in deep pow and can hook the tip in crud. She'd rather scorpion than ski a different ski. So I looked at getting the lucky kid the Revolt 104's as well. Longer higher nose rocker, more of a freeride ski but same family traits as the 95. 172mm is the shortest length. Too long. In the 121 the shortest Revolt is 177mm!

Some other Volkl skis are similarly limited in shorter sizing.

Why? It's not like Volkl is a tiny company unable to spring for more molds etc. Don't they sell these skis to smaller people? And particularly women, who are on average smaller than men. I can't believe there just isn't a market of smaller people wanting certain Volkl skis. And particularly skis with a park bias that ski great all over the hill. Dug around the Volkl catalog and it's not like there's a Revolt 104 165mm branded as some other ski - it just doesn't exist.

Hmmm. What's the deal?

Cheers!

 

[Nobody]

We Yurp'eans like our skis long.
Joke aside. Ìt might really be so, meaning that Voelk might have decided, basing the decision on sale volumes, that there wasn't a market -enough- for (too) short Revolts.

 

[Philpug]

Two of Volkl's most popular skis, the Mantra and Kendo are available in 163cm.

 

[François Pugh]

Just a guess, but my guess is that the 104 is designed for powder or deep snow, and the 121 even more so and even softer snow. Nobody, except small children, should be on a powder ski that's less than 172 cm long. As to why call it a Revolt when it's a powder ski, just another guess - maybe a cross between powder and park or just marketing.

 

[Hankj]

Two of Volkl's most popular skis, the Mantra and Kendo are available in 163cm.

Sure Phil, but it seems like the other big brands have nearly all of their skis in shorter sizes too. K2 and Nordica for example. A Mantra would be too much ski for my kid, doesn't like to work for it, likes to ski backward sometimes, etc.

Just a guess, but my guess is that the 104 is designed for powder or deep snow, and the 121 even more so and even softer snow. Nobody, except small children, should be on a powder ski that's less than 172 cm long.

Even in Volkl's narrow adult frontside skis, 6 of 11 come in a size smaller than 171, and those are mostly beginner skis.

It's too bad! I'd love to keep my kid in the Revolt line if they made the 104 one size smaller.

I guess the Blaze is available to fit her, but it's a completely different ski.

Maybe Volkl is a smaller company than I thought ....

 

[Uncle-A]

Maybe the industry in general wants to go back to something a little bit longer. They have to keep changing things up to keep sales going.

 

[cantunamunch]

My 13 year old kid is gaga about her Volkl Revolt 95's. They are relatively flexy, heavy, very long effective edge for length. Stable, forgiving, grippy and fun. Forced her under protest to let mom ski them for one run on our 5 day trip to Red Mountain with 3 other families. Mom loves them too.

Kid loves them so much she won't ski anything else even if the short and low-tipped Revolt 95's are overwhelmed in deep pow and can hook the tip in crud. She'd rather scorpion than ski a different ski. So I looked at getting the lucky kid the Revolt 104's as well. Longer higher nose rocker, more of a freeride ski but same family traits as the 95. 172mm is the shortest length. Too long. In the 121 the shortest Revolt is 177mm!

Some other Volkl skis are similarly limited in shorter sizing.

Why? It's not like Volkl is a tiny company unable to spring for more molds etc. Don't they sell these skis to smaller people? And particularly women, who are on average smaller than men. I can't believe there just isn't a market of smaller people wanting certain Volkl skis. And particularly skis with a park bias that ski great all over the hill. Dug around the Volkl catalog and it's not like there's a Revolt 104 165mm branded as some other ski - it just doesn't exist.

Hmmm. What's the deal?

Cheers!

Beam flex needs to be scaled to the new size. Torsional flex has to be scaled to the new size. Rocker to main planing surface proportion changes. Tip spacer proportion to core changes. Sidecut has to be re-done. There are limits to what you can scale down before it just plain stops behaving like the bigger ski. At all.

And if the proportion of any of those other down-scaled surfaces to underbinding area gives ski behaviour little different than a snowshoe - there's no sense in building it.

 

[In2h2o]

@Hankj what size Revolt 95 is she on? When my DD was that age for a while she was on a 147 Volkl 85mm twin tip park ski and the Volkl Shiro Jr. at 153 100mm. It was the perfect combo. Many smaller women also loved the Shiro Jr. as their powder ski. Volkl is one of the few companies that has constantly offered a 100mm ski with full rocker in kids lengths with a large turn radius so don't dismiss them so quickly. For DD that was 10 years ago when you would be hard pressed to find any other powder skis for kids.
The Revolt 100 JR. is the current 100mm full rocker offering and comes in 143 153 and 163. https://volkl.com/en-us/p/revolt-100-junior-2023 and fwiw both the 95 and the 100 are multi layer wood core, full sidewall mini cap.

 

[Hankj]

Hi In2h2O!

She's on the 165cm Revolt 95, which is a little on the long side for her but doable. Mounted -4.5 instead of centered as recommended. The minus -4.5 is the midpoint between the directional skier recommendations of the two main Ski Essentials guys. Both of whom, incidentally, also love this ski and put family on it as daily driver. Mount point seems great, instantly made wife and kid happy and feel totally at home.

We already own the venerable and very good Volkl youth ski you're referring to in 163cm. Good ski as a fully rockered, fairly straight crud-buster/mini big mountain ski, but not really part of the Revolt line up. It's too loose for her every day - she likes the long edge and camber of the Revolts.

If I sized her up to the shortest Revolt 104, they would be taller than the top of her head in her ski boots. She's a kid, she loves zinging around all the toboggan tracks cut through the trees over and over with her friends. I don't want to take that away from her by giving her skis too long for her to handle in tight steep spaces.

I want to get her on something very similar to the Revolt 95's she loves so much but where she doesn't scorpion hard off piste when it's heavy or deep. I'm sure I could find something from a different brand, but it's going to be hard to pry her off of the Revolts, so was hoping to offer her another ski that says Revolt on it.

I've brought a new set of Liberty Origin 90's in the right length to the hill three times in a row and she always finds a way to not try them - "Dad if I don't like them I'm going to have to bring them back and then I'll lose my friends ...." I got her to click into them to ride from a base lodge rack to the edge of the parking lot, maybe 20 vertical feet and 100 yards. Claimed she hated them and that I should sell them, swapped me for her Revolts TO CARRY BACK TO THE CAR.

 

[fatbob]

177mm is pretty damn short already .

 

[GregK]

Revolt 104 has way more rocker and taper than the 95 so not similar skis even if that had a shorter length. Nordica Unleashed 98 has a 168cm in the men’s or women’s version and 162cm in the 98W. The 168cm has a bit more rocker than the 165cm(as do most skis) and a hair more taper and tip/tail splay. So carves and bites harder snow similar to the Revolt 95 but floats and goes through crud easier and more fun in bumps/trees.
The Nordica Unleashed 98 is the updated version of the Soul Rider 97 which is a very similar ski to the Revolt 95.

Worst case, Volkl updating the Revolt 95 to a Revolt 96 next season with a similar “Unleashed 98” update for being more friendly in soft snow.

 

[François Pugh]

Hi In2h2O!

She's on the 165cm Revolt 95, which is a little on the long side for her but doable. Mounted -4.5 instead of centered as recommended. The minus -4.5 is the midpoint between the directional skier recommendations of the two main Ski Essentials guys. Both of whom, incidentally, also love this ski and put family on it as daily driver. Mount point seems great, instantly made wife and kid happy and feel totally at home.

We already own the venerable and very good Volkl youth ski you're referring to in 163cm. Good ski as a fully rockered, fairly straight crud-buster/mini big mountain ski, but not really part of the Revolt line up. It's too loose for her every day - she likes the long edge and camber of the Revolts.

If I sized her up to the shortest Revolt 104, they would be taller than the top of her head in her ski boots. She's a kid, she loves zinging around all the toboggan tracks cut through the trees over and over with her friends. I don't want to take that away from her by giving her skis too long for her to handle in tight steep spaces.

I want to get her on something very similar to the Revolt 95's she loves so much but where she doesn't scorpion hard off piste when it's heavy or deep. I'm sure I could find something from a different brand, but it's going to be hard to pry her off of the Revolts, so was hoping to offer her another ski that says Revolt on it.

I've brought a new set of Liberty Origin 90's in the right length to the hill three times in a row and she always finds a way to not try them - "Dad if I don't like them I'm going to have to bring them back and then I'll lose my friends ...." I got her to click into them to ride from a base lodge rack to the edge of the parking lot, maybe 20 vertical feet and 100 yards. Claimed she hated them and that I should sell them, swapped me for her Revolts TO CARRY BACK TO THE CAR.

I see your problem. Had you only posted that the length was above her head, I would see no problem, as I do fine in tight trees with 190 cm Vollant Machettes, and I'm only about 174 cm tall, not as much fun as 179 cm long 108 mm wide full rockers, but fine. However, when you explain the paths she want's to go on are more like rabbit trails through the briar patch, up, around and down, all while being about 60 cm wide if that, I see the problem. Some of those paths through the briar patch can look more like an actual under-ground warren! You can't throw 172 cm skis sideways for speed control on a steep pitch when the path is 60 cm wide; you can't even make that wide of a snow plow. you have to alternate with jump turns getting as much as you can from each edge set. It's a real struggle. Looks like your best bet is the junior ski (if she is good with that), is your junior ski the 100 mm wide one?

 

[Hankj]

I see your problem. Had you only posted that the length was above her head, I would see no problem, as I do fine in tight trees with 190 cm Vollant Machettes, and I'm only about 174 cm tall, not as much fun as 179 cm long 108 mm wide full rockers, but fine. However, when you explain the paths she want's to go on are more like rabbit trails through the briar patch, up, around and down, all while being about 60 cm wide if that, I see the problem. Some of those paths through the briar patch can look more like an actual under-ground warren! You can't throw 172 cm skis sideways for speed control on a steep pitch when the path is 60 cm wide; you can't even make that wide of a snow plow. you have to alternate with jump turns getting as much as you can from each edge set. It's a real struggle. Looks like your best bet is the junior ski (if she is good with that), is your junior ski the 100 mm wide one?

All true enough. My problem though is that no other skis say Volkl Revolt on them, and as such the girl refuses to click in to them. Not sure why she's so devoted - maybe Marcus Eder is paying her.

Maybe a stencil and some spray paint would help sell her on the Nordica Unleashed

Seriously though Volkl either is skipping a market segment or wants shorter/lighter riders on skis taller than they are. I understand the arguments why, but nearly all the other big ski brands don't seem to see it the same way ....

 

[François Pugh]

What? The revolt 100 Jr doesn't say Revolt on it? I'm surprised.

 

[ejj]

Volkl does make the Secret 96 (Mantra) in smaller sizes--my kid demoed a 149 in January. But that's not a powder ski. That said--most small people don't need the same width to float like bigger people.

Also--consider some different brands. We have been very happy with the women's skis from Moment. The graphics have been popular, and the kid loves being different from her peeps. the Bella (Wildcat 108) is a great powder ski that starts at 152cm. The Sierra is a fun do it all that is similar to the Deathwish104. Again, shortest is 152.

But lots of fun skis are out there for small people. Black Crows Birdie models, 4FRNT CC, K2 Mindbender 99W, Mindbender 106C W, etc...

 

[Mike Thomas]

Two and three quarter inches. You are worried about two and three quarter inches.

 

[In2h2o]

@Hankj your a great parent for trying to help her out with skis! but I see you have a different kind of "revolt" problem.
So what are her cohorts skiing on? There has to be a way to coax her into trying different skis on a demo day (if appropriate skis are available)? I get the whole scene having gone thru that age/stage and tryng to have my DD demo skis and boots over the years. But what I will say is once she tries a few different skis hopefully will find something that speaks to her - and then she will understand why its important to sample. @ejj has some great suggestions.... good luck!

 

[Hankj]

What? The revolt 100 Jr doesn't say Revolt on it? I'm surprised.

We already have the previous version that says Katana Jr on it. She doesn't dislike those but a wildly different ski. Good ski though, particularly given that there aren't that many similar youth skis out there

 

[Hankj]

@Hankj your a great parent for trying to help her out with skis! but I see you have a different kind of "revolt" problem.
So what are her cohorts skiing on? There has to be a way to coax her into trying different skis on a demo day (if appropriate skis are available)? I get the whole scene having gone thru that age/stage and tryng to have my DD demo skis and boots over the years. But what I will say is once she tries a few different skis hopefully will find something that speaks to her - and then she will understand why its important to sample. @ejj has some great suggestions.... good luck!

Interesting angle! Line Pandora, Junior Black Crows, My daughter's old handed down K2 Shredittors.

I actually think my enthusiasm for trying a lot of different skis has fueled her stubbornness about only wanting to ski The Revolt 95's. I should tell her she's not allowed to see anything else and then she will instantly want to try something else. Although, like a Jurassic Park velociraptor, she is a clever girl, probably would sniff out my ruse.

 

[1Turn2Many]

Velociraptor would be a good ski model name.