Why are too many parking lots unpaved and often a mess because of it?

[Goose]

I don't know how most resorts elsewhere (besides the east) are as for parking lots. But I was thinking last week while at the hill, "why cant they pave the lots? Why (unless things are frozen) do we have to constantly schlep through muddy crap every time we walk from car to lodge?

I mean of course there is cost in paving but once the initial paving is done it could be many years before needing to replace. In the mean time its cheap enough to make pot hole repairs as the years role along.
But these gravely parking lot mud pits are just ridiculous imo. I don't get it. Bumpy as heck to drive on, splashing mud, uneven walking, etc, etc. its can often be an outright mess, wares down boot bottoms, and then your car becomes a mess too. What gives with this?
So I thought why not pave the areas? Its one part of the sport that seems to never have changed since like forever. Im thinking wouldn't it be nice to actually drive smoothly in and then unpack/suit up and then walk like a gentleman instead of what is too often a brown uneven disgusting mess.

 

[crgildart]

Because rocky gravel surface is less conductive of ice patches and more drivable and walkable than asphalt is in cold, snowy weather..


And it's cheaper.

 

[Goose]

cheaper yes and less slippery for vehicles due to less ice patches but still paved roads and parking lots are everywhere we go. We even drive on them to get the resorts. I mean we don't park on gravel at the local mall, or park that way at an arena, or whatever have you. And those things as well as many other things are in cold places too. Somehow a ski resort is any different? IDK unless you want to tell me walking with ski boots on is the reason...possible that may make some sense. But all it takes is salt/sand spreading. Id be leaning much more towards they expense side of things being the reason but I could be wrong.

 

[LKLA]

Cheaper, requires less maintenance, safer in terms of less slippery, more environmentally friendly, less prone to people hanging around,...not really an issue for most people. Most skiers would rather the mountains invest that money in a new lift or in more snow guns.

 

[at_nyc]

I don't know the real reason of "why". But I would prefer to walk on gravel than on paved parking lot, especially if it's a long walk.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Run off is a concern for all large parking lots, and maybe even more around ski areas. I bet a lot of them couldn't paved even if the resorted wanted to.

dm

 

[scott43]

We actually charge people more tax if they have more impervious surface on their lot. For large landowners, that fee can be significant.

 

[crgildart]

cheaper yes and less slippery for vehicles due to less ice patches but still paved roads and parking lots are everywhere we go. We even drive on them to get the resorts. I mean we don't park on gravel at the local mall, or park that way at an arena, or whatever have you. And those things as well as many other things are in cold places too. Somehow a ski resort is any different? IDK unless you want to tell me walking with ski boots on is the reason...possible that may make some sense. But all it takes is salt/sand spreading. Id be leaning much more towards they expense side of things being the reason but I could be wrong.

Yes, but there aren't snow cannons blasting 24/7 whenever temps allow from November though President's Day near the shopping mall parking lots.

Heat island effect might also factor in. I know it's measurable around shopping malls. Probably not as much where the ski resort acres dwarf the parking lot acres.. shopping mall would have parking lot dwarfing the mall buildings..

 

[SSSdave]

Early morning I like stepping on, listening to the crunching crackling sound of the hollow frozen ice plates where the puddle water beneath has overnight drained into the ground. So my guess is most ski resort managers learned to enjoy that same fun as kids.

 

[Monique]

But all it takes is salt/sand spreading. Id be leaning much more towards they expense side of things being the reason but I could be wrong.

Well, out here, it's common to have freeze/thaw cycles every day. Meaning that summer is "construction season," with road crews frantically trying to fix the worst of it before winter comes again.

Salt speeds up that damage.

But I didn't know about the taxation thing. That sounds relevant.

I think Breck's gondola parking lot is paved, but I'm not sure.

 

[Sibhusky]

Our parking lot isn't muddy until the end of the season. It's pretty solid ice.

 

[at_nyc]

I don't know the real reason of "why". But I would prefer to walk on gravel than on paved parking lot, especially if it's a long walk.

I think Breck's gondola parking lot is paved, but I'm not sure.

Breck Gondola lot is paved.

I was thinking exactly that lot when I thought of long walk in my ski boots on paved surface.

 

[SSSdave]

I have a more interesting parking lot idea than paving them of more interest to skiers. None of us like walking with our expensive plastic ski boots atop abrasive surfaces like asphalt, brick, stone, or in fact gravel. I'd bet the ski boot manufacturers have paid off resorts to keep those lots abrasive so we skiers more often have to replace our expensive boots... Some locals of course never walk through those lots and streets because they have paid for seasonal lockers where they store skis and boots. Same with resort employees.

The resorts to their credit do provide reasonable shuttle buses and transport wagons between their lots and lift entry areas, however most people including this person are more apt to walk 50 to 200 yards versus waiting for a bus that though is probably just 10 minutes away, it might be a half hour. Just stand in any resort parking lot and watch people. Yeah most walk. But that slow gradual grinding away on the plastic takes its toll especially for those that ski a lot. And then there are those rubber boot bottom protectors like Cat Tracks, a product over decades. I bought some decades ago but what the hey does one do with them when reaching a lift area? Put the dirty grubby bulky things in a coat pocket? No way Jay! Also no one is going to secure those up with a ski lock and if it just laying atop snow under a metal ski rack will you still have it after a week of skiing each day leaving it there?

Usually after recent storms, a parking lots even after snow plowing will have layers of ice and snow in shadier places I am usually quick to bother walking atop if I see such. However more common are dry weeks where such areas are snow and ice free. So how about you ski resorts providing a narrow walking width of outdoor ice carpets? There are 30 inch wide 10 foot long consumer fiber latex rubber coated products for just $20. For $1k a resort could buy a 500 foot long length of 10 foot segments and temporarily place it into a parking lot when lots don't have snow and ice surfaces. They could rapidly pick them up on forecast storm days into the back of a pickup truck when they might get buried under snow and then get tangled with snow removal dozers. I can immediately think of several resorts where such walkways would be useful from lots. Yeah the cost of a single pair of expert skis.

The problem with my idea is resorts won't do anything novel like that unless people complain and that won't likely happen because we skiers never complain about such admittedly trivial things to resorts and instead consider it just a fact of skier life. But hey doesn't need to be.

dave's 2 cents

 

[Goose]

Cheaper, requires less maintenance, safer in terms of less slippery, more environmentally friendly, less prone to people hanging around,...not really an issue for most people. Most skiers would rather the mountains invest that money in a new lift or in more snow guns.

If you are to say at a given resort that for certain its a matter of choosing money towards a lift or snow guns, etc...vs a paved lot yes and both cant be afforded Id agree too. But is that really the case with any resort? Some resorts are more profitable than others so that logic wouldn't imo work for all resorts.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Asphalt suffers from freeze-thaw problems. Can you imagine the potholes showing up in spring? They'd have to maintain that every year. Waste of money, that.

 

[Goose]

I have a more interesting parking lot idea than paving them of more interest to skiers. None of us like walking with our expensive plastic ski boots atop abrasive surfaces like asphalt, brick, stone, or in fact gravel. I'd bet the ski boot manufacturers have paid off resorts to keep those lots abrasive so we skiers more often have to replace our expensive boots... Some locals of course never walk through those lots and streets because they have paid for seasonal lockers where they store skis and boots. Same with resort employees.

The resorts to their credit do provide reasonable shuttle buses and transport wagons between their lots and lift entry areas, however most people including this person are more apt to walk 50 to 200 yards versus waiting for a bus that though is probably just 10 minutes away, it might be a half hour. Just stand in any resort parking lot and watch people. Yeah most walk. But that slow gradual grinding away on the plastic takes its toll especially for those that ski a lot. And then there are those rubber boot bottom protectors, a product over decades. I bought some decades ago but what the hey does one do with them when reaching a lift area? Put the dirty grubby bulky things in a coat pocket? No way Jay! Also no one is going to secure those up with a ski lock and if it just laying atop snow under a metal ski rack will you still have it after a week of skiing each day leaving it there?

Usually after recent storms, a parking lots even after snow plowing will have layers of ice and snow in shadier places I am usually quick to bother walking atop if I see such. However more common are dry weeks where such areas are snow and ice free. So how about you ski resorts providing a narrow walking width of outdoor ice carpets? There are 30 inch wide 10 foot long consumer fiber latex rubber coated products for just $20. For $1k a resort could buy a 500 foot long length of 10 foot segments and temporarily place it into a parking lot when lots don't have snow and ice surfaces. They could rapidly pick them up on forecast storm days into the back of a pickup truck when they might get buried under snow and then get tangled with snow removal dozers. I can immediately think of several resorts where such walkways would be useful from lots. Yeah the cost of a single pair of expert skis.

The problem with my idea is resorts won't do anything novel like that unless people complain and that won't likely happen because we skiers never complain about such admittedly trivial things to resorts and instead consider it just a fact of skier life. But hey doesn't need to be.

honestly the boot ware on the gravel is what concernes me more than the other stuff. I loo at my boots and for the relatively small amount of ski days they have on them it just seems the bottoms are more worn and chewed than Id like for the price tag we pay. The biggest reason for that is gravel parking lots. Lets not even mention people (especially kids) who drag there feet some and even worsens the situation. The of course the mud and dirt is another issue Im not a fan of either.

I like your idea though as for the runners (so to speak). That could be an option. However id imagine cars driving over them could screw things up a bit.

 

[Goose]

Asphalt suffers from freeze-thaw problems. Can you imagine the potholes showing up in spring? They'd have to maintain that every year. Waste of money, that.

But what does any other place with paved lots do? I don't think that's any worse a condition than other places are especially if pitched well.
I don't know why people keep saying waste of money. Yes when a resort truly cannot afford to pave their lots. But not all resorts are strapped for cash. And besides you can always charge a couple bucks to park or add it to the lift tickets. I mean lift tickets are paying for all the other things we may not realize anyway. I mean hey...Im not looking to make skiing any more expensive than it is already. But I just think suggesting that paved lots are a make or break expense for every resort in general is a bit of an over statement.

 

[Chris Walker]

At Aspen Highlands there is a covered parking garage with an escalator to take you up to the lifts. When the money is sufficient, all of the listed problems with non-primitive parking lots can be overcome.

Regarding boot wear, I'm surprised everyone doesn't use Cat Tracks or similar whenever walking a non-negligible distance on a surface more abrasive than snow.

 

[LKLA]

If you are to say at a given resort that for certain its a matter of choosing money towards a lift or snow guns, etc...vs a paved lot yes and both cant be afforded Id agree too. But is that really the case with any resort? Some resorts are more profitable than others so that logic wouldn't imo work for all resorts.

It's one of MANY reasons like I and others have stated.

And, it surely can be a reason - as we all painfully know there is a limited amount of money (even for ski mountain owners!) and more and more mountains are looking at return on investment (ROI) to allocate their money. A paved parking lot does not provide them with much of a return (they can often get away with charging for parking even in mud pits ).

 

[scott43]

My guess is, it doesn't really square with what they're doing. There's nothing more depressing to me than showing up to a ski hill in the middle of nowhere in the middle of summer with my mountain bike and seeing a sea of asphalt. In the winter, we don't salt a lot of our roads and certainly not dirt roads. So I wouldn't expect anyone to see the parking lot surface in the winter time. It would mostly be snow and ice. And they use sand. In the spring they just have to clean up all that sand. If they had pavement they'd have to salt it..which is hard on the environment. As is paving over the lot. I dunno..just seems more negatives than positives to me. Country mountain lifestyle..pavement doesn't square with that.