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Why are there "women specific" skis?

Josh Matta

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I think the vast majority of Women who are advanced and expert are under skied. I have to laugh as my wife is now crushing crud on chop on short mens skis like a 166cm Brahma, and 169cm Enforcer 93, while a ton of other people will much more experience are getting bounced on their metal less women's ski.......and I fully admit that when I got her the Brahmas that I wanted her to be overskied so she couldnt throw them around but instead would learn to go along an arc.
 

Philpug

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I think the vast majority of Women who are advanced and expert are under skied. I have to laugh as my wife is now crushing crud on chop on short mens skis like a 166cm Brahma, and 169cm Enforcer 93, while a ton of other people will much more experience are getting bounced on their metal less women's ski.......and I fully admit that when I got her the Brahmas that I wanted her to be overskied so she couldnt throw them around but instead would learn to go along an arc.
I agree there are some..but far from the vast majority. I wold safely say it is 1/3 1/3 1/3. One third are on the right skis, one third are on too much ski and one third are on not enough ski.
 

ChrisFromOC

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I agree there are some..but far from the vast majority. I wold safely say it is 1/3 1/3 1/3. One third are on the right skis, one third are on too much ski and one third are on not enough ski.

Just about the same for men, right?
 

HardDaysNight

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and I fully admit that when I got her the Brahmas that I wanted her to be overskied so she couldnt throw them around but instead would learn to go along an arc.

Did the same thing with my wife. And then spent quite a bit of time, at her specific request and against all advice, coaching her. Amazing improvement. The right skis really can help you get better - trick is to know what the right skis are.
 
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CalG

CalG

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You also asked the same question in this thread: "Most pioneering women's skis of all time". post 39 and answered in post 40 and 41. That thread also referenced "Shrink it and pink it: What makes a women's skid diifferent" which delves deeper into what makes a women's ski different.

I suppose the root question could be asked in many ways.

What are the construction differences for women specific skis?

What are the ski performance considerations a woman is looking for in a ski that may be different than that for men?

What morphology of women could be reflected in ski design or construction? The angles of inquiry are varied.
I don't feel a requirement to be specific. The conversation is quite useful as it has developed

Obviously, as this thread unfolds, it may be concluded that previous discussions of the referenced threads has left room for additional expression. If I had felt satisfied with what had gone down before, I'm sure I would not post additional questioning of the subject. Perhaps it only a mechanism to hear additional voices.
 

Analisa

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I think part of it is also marketing - it's interesting to read the copy for men's & women's skis when you know they're the same ski (like the Victa/Invictus or QST line). The men's item descriptions are really action-packed, talking about ripping & charging & getting air, whereas women's descriptions focus more on the attributes of the ski. I've had several taller female friends read the descriptions for men's skis and they're like "I'm not doing any of that!" I have to remind them that women make up 41% of skiers and 13% of those that self-identify as experts. We're not disproportionately bad at skiing. There's just some dude named Mike at their same ski level that tomahawked and snowplowed down a black groomer and decided he needs a pretty aggressive ski now.

I think women create a market for women's skis, but men do in their own way too. The Brahma CA is essentially the Black Pearl 88, but my bet is most guys wouldn't have bought it if it was marketed that way. I know I had a friend in the market for a QST 106 in 174 but wouldn't get the Stella when it was available through his pro deal.

It'll be interesting to see how Faction does consolidating their lines and carrying a range of sizes that work from the highest junior sizes through men's. I personally think it's empowering since we can ski just as hard and as fast, and the choices for really short, but advanced & powerful women are pretty limited. But I think it'll come across to consumers as if they're ignoring the entire customer segment.

I don't think the differentiation is necessary, but skiing in the low to mid 170s, I'm not complaining. It means lots of options and being able to shop between really nuanced differences between skis.
 

Karen_skier2.0

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Volkl Aura 177 @ 5' 3", heavy weight -- grabbed them online a few years back when they were available online and love them. The longest they make now is 170.

Different strokes for different folks.
 

Bolder

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Probably not the same for men.
For men, 40% are over ski, 40% are on the wrong ski, 10% are under ski and 10% are spot on.

Ha! That's probably correct.

I like to say I may not be right all the time but I'm never wrong.
 

Philpug

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Probably not the same for men.
For men, 40% are over ski, 40% are on the wrong ski, 10% are under ski and 10% are spot on.
That gives you only 60%, the 40% that are on the wrong ski are the 50% (40% + 10% that are on the over ski and under ski).
 

Tricia

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How does the ski "know" if a man or a woman is attached? The ski don't know.
Again, this isn't a gender thing, this is a body shape thing, but because women tend to have boobs and wider hips, the body shape *may* change how the movement and weight distribution on the ski works.
 

KingGrump

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That gives you only 60%, the 40% that are on the wrong ski are the 50% (40% + 10% that are on the over ski and under ski).

Never said I was good in math.

Over ski is usually related to skis that are too aggressive in performance or stiff. Think the older generation Mantra crowd.
Wrong ski is usually wrong ski for the condition. Application error. Volkl One or S7 on a New England boiler plate day.
 

tball

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We've got boy/girl twins. Walk up to the kid's ski wall at a ski shop and the boy goes to the boy's skis and the girl goes to the girl's skis. :huh:

Just an observation. :duck:
 

Philpug

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Never said I was good in math.
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LuliTheYounger

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We've got boy/girl twins. Walk up to the kid's ski wall at a ski shop and the boy goes to the boy's skis and the girl goes to the girl's skis. :huh:

Just an observation. :duck:

This is a funnier one - you can tell how early kids start to stick with a certain category, even if the difference is literally just Topsheet Technology. The standard anthropometrics book for product designers doesn't even give separate measurements for boys vs. girls until after puberty; apparently the average physiological differences are so negligible that there's basically no point in giving separate numbers. Sort of goofy when you think about how many kids products are marketed with a "girls" vs. a "boys" version. I don't know much about the history of kids' skis, but it seems like the boys vs. girls skis thing is a new invention - back in the 90s/early 2000s I remember every single kid in my lessons being on identical red Rossis. Always had a hell of a time sorting those things out after lunch, hahaha.
 

DavidSkis

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Again, this isn't a gender thing, this is a body shape thing, but because women tend to have boobs and wider hips, the body shape *may* change how the movement and weight distribution on the ski works.
I'm glad that women are reporting their experiences in this thread and I'd love to read more.

In addition to potentially bigger chests and wider hips, I believe that women can have proportionately less muscle mass to overall weight (due to body composition, estrogen vs testosterone levels, etc). One of the very delicate level 3 women I ski with is quite vocal about only wanting to be on softer skis. Another plus-size (physically strong) level 3 woman I ski with is equally vocal about wanting to be on a stiff (slalom) ski. The plus-size woman's commentary has been that skiers, female or male, need the right equipment for their body.

Looking at Head's women's skis page, I notice that all the women skis focus on stereotyped words like lightness, attractive, agility, playful, home/comfort, balance. As a male, I cannot objectively compare a woman's experience on skis, but I will say that moving from a featherweight-ish ski to a heavy, grippy, stiffer slalom ski has forced/enabled me to ski better. Is there perhaps room to get women on a (relatively) heavier, grippier ski? Do women need to be on a light ski? Is there a fear element here for women? (I ask because at first I was apprehensive about being on a heavier ski. I got over that after two runs.)

How would women describe Lindsay Vonn or Mikaela Shiffrin's skiing? How do women perceive these athletes' skiing? These might sound like silly questions or like questions with obvious answers, but until we ask, we just don't really know.

Also, are there women racers out there who can chime in, or women who've switched to race gear? Really curious about your perspectives.
 

Tricia

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Looking at Head's women's skis page, I notice that all the women skis focus on stereotyped words like lightness, attractive, agility, playful, home/comfort, balance.
That is marketing and design work that comes from listening to what the average women want.
You may find that the women who post on this site aren't average, for the most part.

Keeping in mind that I come from several different points of view. I am a...
  • Hard goods sales person at a ski shop
  • Ski bootfitter
  • Female skier
  • Ski tester - review writer
  • Geek about gear and technology

Some (but not all) of the things I hear on the ski wall at the shop from both men and women are
  • My old skis are so heavy
  • This ski seems heavy. Do you have something similar that's not so heavy?
  • I don't (or do) like those graphics
  • Which binding do I need?
  • That binding won't look good on that ski
  • I'll have to get a new jacket to go with those skis.
Even though Head seems to stereotype women in the Light, attractive, agile .....(insert terms here), they also bring up these things when talking about unisex skis in their line up. #lightdoneright
 

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