Why are skis so wide?

[focker]

We always get a good chuckle when we see someone in the lift line here in MN with like 97's on skiing rock hard groomers.

 

[WynnDuffy]

(Nordica Navigator 80 Ti... should work as well for what you want.)

That's on my list - I'm looking for a ski that is soft enough for the bumps but has some width and rocker for going into the trees. If it's a real powder day I'll take my Soul's, but I don't want to do that if we just get a few inches.

 

[François Pugh]

Put on a consumer demo day this past weekend at the local hill. Spring conditions, but never really softened up to true corn or slush. Nearly every consumer wanted to try a "powder ski" (over 100mm). Definitely a questionable choice for the conditions. They were not interested in anything under 90mm. It wasn't too busy and our staff took turns skiing. we were taking out high-performance carvers (Blizzard Firebirds, Head Supershapes, Fischer RC's) and skiing and had a blast arching turns on the firm-ish groomers. We skied with a few customers as they were testing their "fat skis" and while we were on "narrow skis". They would watch us ski and just shrug their shoulders. Most had no interest in carving or "racer turns" or learning how to use the ski. They just want a ski for the few days that they encounter soft snow or powder. Or, want a ski that makes them look like one of the "cool kids" that they see in ski movies, youtube, or in social media.

As one of my friends, that is a long time ski rep says, " I gave up trying to sell people the skis that they need, just sell 'em what they want. "

Here are a few notable consumer quotes from the demo day. "Don't you have anything wider than 105mm that's shorter than a 170?"; "My mom needs a ski with more early taper in the tip." ; "All this ski wants to do is carve. What else do you have?" ; "I've improved my skiing over the last couple of years, I need to move up to a wider ski."

This is why skis are so wide.

Yes it appears the consumers "want" the wide skis, but is that cause or effect of the marketing? Maybe a little of both.

Since we are on page 6, a little drift is in order.
Don't conflate skinny with short radius. Long radius skinny full cambered skis are great at cutting through piles of crud and loose snow. Short radius skinny skis will try to turn tighter than the snow platform will hold. For example on a snow storm day switching from my 13 m radius, 165 cm skis to my 27 m 190 cm skis is like pushing the easy button. That being said those full cambered 68 mm 27 m radius skis do not come close to the ease with which a 95+ mm rockered ski performs in tight trees and deep snow.

The thing is though, there are thousands of skiers who ski on hard-packed groomers who are trading away the perfect skis for the conditions they actually ski (Tremblant, Blue Mountain Collingwood and similar), for an advantage (ease of use in deep snow and tight trees) they will never realize because they don't ski in those conditions. Conditions in other places make it not so bad. In some places even the groomers are somewhat soft. Lucky are the few who have experience skiing in both types of places.

 

[anders_nor]

I want a 70, 80 or even 90mm ski that is 188-195 or close to it, something like a FIS GS meets a mantra 102 for stiffness, but the "does not try to kill you" of the mantra 102, if it has a similuar ability to change up turnshapes of the M102, yes please.

edge to edge on somthing 100mm+ is meeeeeeeeeeeeeh, eventhough its way better than it was.

 

[Mike King]

Out today in 10" of dense fresh snow on my 84. Great fun! Nice to be "in it" rather than "on it" and pushing it around....

 

[Philpug]

I have to confess I’m missing your point. The type of ski I mentioned carves very well, and offers great versatility for the rest of the mountain. A narrower more carving focused ski will carve better on groomers, no doubt, but will ski less well over most of the rest of the mountain.

My point is that for a recreational skier there isn’t actually this terrible trade off that’s being contended. You can still carve a mid 80mm ski, and pretty well.

My point was that so do the SUV's that I substituted for the skis you mentioned. These SUV's are really more car like than having the truck perception that the counsumer wants them to be. Cars/wagons will driver and handle better in every aspect like a narrower ski will carve better.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I prefer a slalom ski when there's guaranteed ice or hard pack. When it might be mixed I'll likely have something on my feet around 85 to 90 underfoot. My "powder" skis are 94 to 103 underfoot. It all depends on what my perceived take on the conditions will be that day. I do to try to have all my skis be somewhat compliant in firm conditions because I ski in the northeast so there's usually hard somewhere in my travels lol. In all honestly I spend most of my time in my SL, skis or my Stockli Stormrider 85s. Generally not much "need" for anything wider than that. There are days when I have a blast in my fatter skis regardless of conditions. All depends. What I do know is what when conditions are mixed or flat out ungroomed I prefer a little gurth. My Stockli Stormrider 100s float like noones business so on a powder day they are my first choice.

 

[Sibhusky]

Being a transplant from the Ice Coast, I moved from 65mm underfoot when I got here first to 78, now 84 for the groomers and 99 for my powder ski. We have more supportive snow here than Utah in general.

 

[François Pugh]

You can take your fattys instead of your GS skis to carve trenches on hard snow groomers. You can also disable the power steering on a Mercury Grand Marquis before taking it for a drive. But why would you?

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

To store all their skis?

and mnt bikes...

 

[Marker]

Because most folks own only one ski and they've been sold that powder is the ultimate experience.

Personally, I own a 69 cheater GS, two all mtn 88's, and a 115 powder ski in the range of 183-188 cm (6'6", 225 lb). I spend most of my time on the 88's, but prefer the cheater GS skis for firmer days when I won't be (trying to) ski the bumps. I've only got parts of 2 days this season on the powder skis, but they were fun in those conditions.

It is somewhat puzzling to watch folks ski Superstar using freeride 100 skis. Today at least most of the local experts appeared to come out in spades on condition appropriate skis.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

I think SUV's drive astonishingly well nowadays. A BMW X3 or Audi Q3 will handle great, other than a closed track, and I’m sure a more competent driver than me could make them do that too. When I get in trucks like that on back roads I’m astonished at how well drive nowadays. I just don’t think it’s a “thing”.

I am all for skis designed for the conditions they were intended for. I agree, mid 80mm skis are really really good but above that there are deminishing returns. Last year when a popular magazine did the "Frontside Skis" reviews, of the 13 skis that the brands paid to get in, only 3 were even under 90mm with one being a whopping 94mm. Whis is that, is it the magazines fault or is it the brands marketing department trying ot redirect the consumer? Not too dissimilar to Ford discontinueing their most of their sedans in favor of SUV's. IMHO, both are short sighted trends.

if Head Monster 83 is BMW X3, than what are Kastle and Stockli???

 

[crgildart]

if Head Monster 83 is BMW X3, than what are Kästle and Stöckli???

Volvo and Audi..

 

[Tony Storaro]

if Head Monster 83 is BMW X3, than what are Kästle and Stöckli???

Porsche Cayenne and Lamborghini Urus.

 

[Philpug]

Porsche Cayenne and Lamborghini Urus.

Those are Augment and Blossom

 

[Tricia]

@Bob Barnes once said, "Fat skis are awesome becuase they burn longer when you're stranded in the backcountry and need to build a fire."

 

[KingGrump]

they've been sold that powder is the ultimate experience.

Hence the reference in post #3.

Lots of teen dudes carry a condom in their wallet even when it doesn't get use for many years.
Just in case.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Hence the reference in post #3.

Lots of teen dudes carry a condom in their wallet even when it doesn't get use for many years.
Just in case.

 

[KingGrump]

You one of those?

 

[Tony Storaro]

You one of those?

Worse. Mine is perforated, just to make sure I will screw up even if I get lucky.