Where should I ski in 2020?

[Jerez]

Was going to suggest Sun Valley too. T ride and CB have had an epic season so the chances of two in a row are slim.

Never been to whitefish in winter but that looks promising and low crowd likely.

 

[dbostedo]

... the chances of two in a row are slim.

That's the "gambler's fallacy" as it's known. If we assume weather the next season is random (which it essentially is at this point) next season is no more or less likely to be a big snow year than any other.

The odds of two future big snow years in a row may be less than any single year. But unless there's some longer term effect of this season's winter weather on next season (and there might be, but I'm not aware), there's no reason to assume next year can't be a big year too. The odds are the same as they were this season.

 

[TonyPlush]

Any Telluride voters have a second choice? In talking to some friends, it seems most likely that I'll be heading to Telluride on a separate couples trip around February 2020.

Which still leaves the big guys trip open for another mountain in January or March. Sounds like maybe Mammoth is the runner up so far?

 

[Lofcaudio]

Telluride is a no-brainer if you haven't been there before, but if you are taking it off the list, then my favorite go-tos are:

1) SLC (Alta/Snowbird/Snowbasin)
2) Aspen (Snowmass AND Highlands)
3) JH/GT
4) Whistler

Your group of guys sound very similar to what I like to ski. I just got back from an amazing trip to Utah. If you like long, steep groomers, then Snowbasin is outstanding. On a weekday, you can have that place mostly to yourself. Next week I will be in Aspen skiing Snowmass and Highlands. Highlands also has some super-fun terrain and is a great secondary spot to tack on to a trip to Snowmass.

 

[Bill Miles]

Since Sun Valley was mentioned, here is how it scores against yoour criteria:

Likes:
-Long, fast groomers--++ About the best in the country
-Mellow trees-- - Some but not a lot
-Steep groomed terrain or wind buffed bowls (35-40 degree pitch seems steep for our ability)--Steep overall, but not a lot of real steep stuff. Lower 30's degreeson several groomers. 35-40 degrees is getting into real steep.
-Venturing off trail on blue and black terrain--A fair amount of this, especially in the bowls, but may be dependent on snow conditions.
-The feeling of exploring a bigger mountain--Fairly big, (2,000 acres, 3400 vertical) but does not compare to Whistler or Vail
-Scenic views--Pretty good
-Affordable ski in/ski out, or at least a convenient shuttle to the mountain--Most ski-in, ski out is at Warm Springs base. I am not up to date on prices or know what you consider affordable. Good bus system in Ketchum and good parking situation if you drive.
-Mangy Moose at Jackson Hole (for its down-to-earth vibe and cheap craft beer)--About a 250 mile drive.
-Easy, cheap places for dinner. Burritos, pasta, or pizza is always a hit.--Pretty good selection in Ketchum

Dislikes:
-Lift lines longer than a couple chairs--Minimal lift lines for major resort, but not always a couple of chairs. Can still ski yourself into exhaution.
-Cliffs and chutes--Not much
-Long hikes to terrain--Not much
-Double fall lines (Looking at you, Canyons...)--Not much
-Flat runouts back to the lift (Looking at you, Winter Park...)--Not much
-Fine dining or expensive dinners--You can find this if you want to, but, as mentioned aboce, a pretty good slection

 

[Bill Miles]

Great recommendation and definitely a mountain I've overlooked. Sun Valley has been on the list for a while; I think I got scared away recently due to the low total snow figures. I suppose their terrain, with the emphasis on groomers, still does okay without tons of fresh?

The website says the expansion is for the 2020-21 season. We'd be taking the trip in Jan-March 2020, I'm assuming it won't be ready yet?

Total snow figures are low but they have a lot of snowmaking and do fine except for powderhounds.

It appears the new lift/terrain won't be ready. It was originally scheduled for 2019/2020. Shoudn't be a deal breaker.

 

[sbooker]

Since Sun Valley was mentioned, here is how it scores against yoour criteria:

Likes:
-Long, fast groomers--++ About the best in the country
-Mellow trees-- - Some but not a lot
-Steep groomed terrain or wind buffed bowls (35-40 degree pitch seems steep for our ability)--Steep overall, but not a lot of real steep stuff. Lower 30's degreeson several groomers. 35-40 degrees is getting into real steep.
-Venturing off trail on blue and black terrain--A fair amount of this, especially in the bowls, but may be dependent on snow conditions.
-The feeling of exploring a bigger mountain--Fairly big, (2,000 acres, 3400 vertical) but does not compare to Whistler or Vail
-Scenic views--Pretty good
-Affordable ski in/ski out, or at least a convenient shuttle to the mountain--Most ski-in, ski out is at Warm Springs base. I am not up to date on prices or know what you consider affordable. Good bus system in Ketchum and good parking situation if you drive.
-Mangy Moose at Jackson Hole (for its down-to-earth vibe and cheap craft beer)--About a 250 mile drive.
-Easy, cheap places for dinner. Burritos, pasta, or pizza is always a hit.--Pretty good selection in Ketchum

Dislikes:
-Lift lines longer than a couple chairs--Minimal lift lines for major resort, but not always a couple of chairs. Can still ski yourself into exhaution.
-Cliffs and chutes--Not much
-Long hikes to terrain--Not much
-Double fall lines (Looking at you, Canyons...)--Not much
-Flat runouts back to the lift (Looking at you, Winter Park...)--Not much
-Fine dining or expensive dinners--You can find this if you want to, but, as mentioned aboce, a pretty good slection

I’ll second most of this but will emphasise that Ketchum is a great town that has inexpensive lodging (both Best Westerns) and some cool pubs and bars. The bus will take you quickly to the hill.

Oh and the big vertical HSQ’s will have your legs jelly-like for those après beers.

 

[Decreed_It]

Adding a +1 for Altabird. Slopeside Goldminer's Daughter is 190/night double occy including a killer breakfast and 4 course dinner every night. That might be fine dining, except since its included, maybe not?

Weekdays aren't bad unless there's a pow day after a drought and even then weekday pow day is nothing compared to weekend. Meets all your ski criteria. What you want is a big snow interlogen when they close the canyon road and you get it all to yourself when they finish avy control

 

[skidrew]

That's the "gambler's fallacy" as it's known. If we assume weather the next season is random (which it essentially is at this point) next season is no more or less likely to be a big snow year than any other.

The odds of two future big snow years in a row may be less than any single year. But unless there's some longer term effect of this season's winter weather on next season (and there might be, but I'm not aware), there's no reason to assume next year can't be a big year too. The odds are the same as they were this season.

Mathematically correct, but western snow is affected by El Nino/La Nina conditions. This winter has had El Nino, which has resulted in a good amount of Colorado snow. But given there's an oscillation pattern, next winter is less like to have El Nino conditions, which means the snow may head elsewhere.

To be fair, Tony Crocker says only a few resorts appear to be systematically favored by El Nino: https://www.bestsnow.net/El_Nino.htm

 

[dbostedo]

Mathematically correct, but western snow is affected by El Nino/La Nina conditions. This winter has had El Nino, which has resulted in a good amount of Colorado snow. But given there's an oscillation pattern, next winter is less like to have El Nino conditions, which means the snow may head elsewhere.

To be fair, Tony Crocker says only a few resorts appear to be systematically favored by El Nino: https://www.bestsnow.net/El_Nino.htm

Yes, but I'd still contend that connections like that, given that they're typically mild and we're so far ahead of next season, means next season's weather is still essentially random.

 

[DanoT]

Whistler has been mentioned a few times but unless you are a double black diamond skier looking to mostly spend time in the Alpine above the level of the Peak to Peak Gondola, why would you go to a resort that sells garbage bags with their logo on it and the arm and neck holes already cut? That is way too prepared for rain.

OTOH Whistler does have arguably the best partying in North America and the ski-centric shopping is such that if an item is offered for sale by the ski industry in N.A., you can probably find it at Whistler.

OK, if you must go to WB, then go in early to mid April when the crowds are gone and everything is on sale. Best chance of seeing the sun is in April as well.

 

[Bill Miles]

Great recommendation and definitely a mountain I've overlooked. Sun Valley has been on the list for a while; I think I got scared away recently due to the low total snow figures. I suppose their terrain, with the emphasis on groomers, still does okay without tons of fresh?

The website says the expansion is for the 2020-21 season. We'd be taking the trip in Jan-March 2020, I'm assuming it won't be ready yet?

Total snow figures are low but they have a lot of snowmaking and do fine except for powderhounds.

It appears the new lift/terrain won't be ready. It was originally scheduled for 2019/2020. Shoudn't be a deal breaker.

 

[TonyPlush]

Adding a +1 for Altabird. Slopeside Goldminer's Daughter is 190/night double occy including a killer breakfast and 4 course dinner every night. That might be fine dining, except since its included, maybe not?

Weekdays aren't bad unless there's a pow day after a drought and even then weekday pow day is nothing compared to weekend. Meets all your ski criteria. What you want is a big snow interlogen when they close the canyon road and you get it all to yourself when they finish avy control

The one question I've always had about Alta/Bird - how would it work with a large group?

We're primarily a group that goes on ski trips to ski. So Alta sounds perfect for that. But while we're not big on partying, we do enjoy having a condo with a common area large enough for 8 guys to sit around drinking a beer and reminiscing on the ski day.

We tend to avoid hotel rooms because of that, because 8 guys sharing 4 rooms doesn't seem like it'd provide that same ability to hang out. Do the Alta lodges like Goldminer's daughter have common areas where our large group could hang out? Or does Alta/Bird have a restaurant/bar somewhere our large group could relax at night?

 

[Lofcaudio]

Goldminer's Daughter definitely has a couple of places to sit down and hang out (Cafe until 5:00 PM and the Saloon until 11:00 PM) and would be fine for a group of 8. You could book two of the 4-bunk "dorm" rooms and will have an amazing time as the meals that come with the lodging are fantastic. It also has a huge basement/game room with ping-pong tables, pool tables, and the like. You can just hang out there and not even have to order any food.

https://www.goldminersdaughterlodge.com/

 

[Decreed_It]

Do the Alta lodges like Goldminer's daughter have common areas where our large group could hang out? Or does Alta/Bird have a restaurant/bar somewhere our large group could relax at night?

Edit: @Lofcaudio beat me to it, more succinctly, as I was typing this up

Hey Tony - my first trip to Alta was about 6 or 7 years ago with a large group of guys from the Carolinas, 25+! GMD (Goldminer's Daughter) is our spot of choice. We've never had an issue congregating. The rooms are only used for late night tv watching and sleeping . To address the group hang out concerns, a typical day for us:

Cafe opens at 6:15 (I think) for Coffee for us east coasters to check e-mails and pretend to be important at work. Off to breakfast by 7:30. The carousing starts here already. Snow conditions assessed, smack talked, plans made.

Ski hill - it's awesome, tons of territory, something for everyone, covered better elsewhere.

après - one of the better après scenes at Alta, out of a few. Tables and chairs, couches by the fire, pool table, foosball, a good bar, killer pizza and nachos. We would all congregate there every day to fete our accomplishments on the hill. Whoever threw in the towel first would grab a couple tables and buy the first pitcher.

Around 5:30ish guys would start peeling off for pre-dinner showers, or the hot tub, or the sauna, or a massage, some, all of the above.

Dinner time we would split up into a couple large 8-10 person tables, usually staggered, and they do groups really well so off in a corner of the dining room to try to keep things under control. Couple more hours of carousing there. They serve cocktails and a decent wine list in the dining room. You can bring your own wine. Couple of the guys ship in a case.

Then, if that doesn't have you off to bed straight from dessert, we would head down to the basement rec room and continue there. Ping pong tables, another pool table, sitting area, TVs. And of course there's the excursion across the parking lot to the 'P-dog' a.k.a. Peruvian bar for late night (this is Alta, so we're talking 10:30 max here) festivities.

Now - to be fair - it's not a house or condo so there are other guests around, but GMD is setup for large groups like this and we've never had an issue being accommodated. I wouldn't worry about it. The room and board and proximity to the slopes, for the price, make it pretty hard to beat.

 

[Ryan Dietrich]

Telluride is a no-brainer if you haven't been there before, but if you are taking it off the list, then my favorite go-tos are:

Your group of guys sound very similar to what I like to ski. I just got back from an amazing trip to Utah. If you like long, steep groomers, then Snowbasin is outstanding. On a weekday, you can have that place mostly to yourself. Next week I will be in Aspen skiing Snowmass and Highlands. Highlands also has some super-fun terrain and is a great secondary spot to tack on to a trip to Snowmass.

I just skied at Snowbasin for the first time this season, and I was totally blown away. It is an incredibly awesome mountain. However, next season it WILL become part of the epic pass, so I would assume it will be a lot more busy than it was this season.

 

[givethepigeye]

I’m going to say that is long steep groomer are what you are after, the Bird isn’t the place. Sure they have groomed runs , but to be honest, they aren’t that wide or steep (other than RJ) and the primary purpose is to move from one offpiste area to another - exception being Mineral Basin. Which would be weather dependent. Kind of the same at Alta w/ exception of the groomed areas over by Collins.

Don’t get me wrong, love Alta/Bird, just got back Sat. But would be honest about what you want to ski. Alta gets small fast if you aren’t skiing off piste and/or visibility is bad for those that normally do.

Sun Valley would be my destination in long steep groomed terrain was primary. Plus Ketchum is cool, and there is history/ tradition there. Not certain on lodging, we always stay at Sun Valley lodge and grab shuttle to River Run or Warm Springs which runs regularly.

Runner up = Snowmass.

Just my experience. Been a bunch of places.

 

[mikel]

I am mildly curious...what is Detroit style pizza?

It's one of their signature pizzas. Kind of like a Chicago, A square pizza with thick crust with the edges a bit more on the crispy side. And I need to amend the price I posted. Apparently that also included 2 soft drinks. My bad.

 

[TonyPlush]

I’m going to say that is long steep groomer are what you are after, the Bird isn’t the place. Sure they have groomed runs , but to be honest, they aren’t that wide or steep (other than RJ) and the primary purpose is to move from one offpiste area to another - exception being Mineral Basin. Which would be weather dependent. Kind of the same at Alta w/ exception of the groomed areas over by Collins.

Don’t get me wrong, love Alta/Bird, just got back Sat. But would be honest about what you want to ski. Alta gets small fast if you aren’t skiing off piste and/or visibility is bad for those that normally do.

Sun Valley would be my destination in long steep groomed terrain was primary. Plus Ketchum is cool, and there is history/ tradition there. Not certain on lodging, we always stay at Sun Valley lodge and grab shuttle to River Run or Warm Springs which runs regularly.

Runner up = Snowmass.

Just my experience. Been a bunch of places.

Appreciate the insight. My original post might have oversold our love for groomers. We definitely love the long steep groomers, but off-piste stuff is great too. It kind of depends on the mountain, but our group typically splits our time 40/60 with 40% being groomers and 60% being trees, bowls, moguls, etc. That breakdown will tilt if we happen to find awesome runs one way or another. (I.e... probably spent 70% of the time ripping groomers at Snowmass, whereas 70% of our time at Steamboat was off-piste in the trees.)

 

[givethepigeye]

@TonyPlush Well, that’s a whole different ballgame then. Carry-on. I have nothing that hasn’t been said already, except I enjoy Ajax.