What's the most important factor with boot fit?

[Analisa]

I'm shopping for my first real inbound boot since I was a kid. I first moved out west, I went straight for a touring setup since I was mainly looking for a way to move efficiently for winter climbing, but I won a season ski pass and met a cute park rat and started skiing inbounds for about half of my days every season. I've been in a pair of Dynafit Mercuries and got a stiffer pair of the Vulcans when they started making them in unisex sizes. I'm a hard foot to fit (narrow and especially low volume from top to sole) so I just put MNC bindings on my inbound skis so I didn't have to boot shop, and then picked up a cheap pair of Lange RX 110 LVs off Craigslist so I could still demo at the handful of shops that use standard alpine bindings.

Now that they've discontinued the Mercury/Vulcan fit, I'm a lot more motivated to get a proper inbound boot and prolong the life of my touring boots. (And the Langes aren't it). I've been to a fitting and have a few contenders (Nordica Promachine, Tecnica Cochise, and Tecnica Mach1 LV), but still have a couple of questions about getting the right boot.

I'm concerned about the ramp angle, having spent close to 300 days in a flat touring boot. The Langes really burn up my quads when I ski them, but I'm not sure if it's the ramp angle or the fact that I'm compensating for the fact that they're pretty loose in the heel. Some sites I've read seem to say that there's a right ramp angle for everyone and it's just a matter of finding it; others note that the touring boots are flatter & more comfortable vs. the athletic stance of a race-inspired boot. Which one would you say is true? My fitter would prefer to adjust the ramp through binding shims, but that it would affect the ability to swap out boots, which I really value for travel.

Also, my fitter recommends the Nordica since it's so much narrower in the forefoot, and that she could do some modifications to stop the movement that I'm getting in the heel, but it also has the highest ramp angle. The Tecnicas are wider, but the heel fits perfectly out of the box, and it's the only brand I've tried where I haven't been able to shift my foot around in the extra space in the boot. Which factor would you say in the most important for fitting?

And also open to other super LV options - my feet were swimming in the Hawx Ultra and Salomon XMax, but I feel like there might be a few other options to track down and try on.

Thank you!

 

[SBrown]

Not a bootfitter, but I've always heard (and it's been my experience) that the ankle/heel area is the most difficult part of the boot to modify, therefore the one to get right.

 

[Philpug]

I will get into details later. I am
Responding on my phone. The Lange is one of the more upright boots already. If gas peddling is a considered direction, the Lange is one of the easiest boots to do that with. The new langes are also snugger in the heel pocket as are the new K2 Luvs. There are also race-derived boots but most are pretty aggressive in stance but can be gas peddled too.

 

[AmyPJ]

I have found with my incredibly low volume/low instep feet that I HAVE To have a custom liner, and my favorite so far is Boot Doc. Tecnica Mach 1 LV fits not great with the stock liner, but with a custom liner? It fits great. I can't even look at Lange with a stock liner, at least not their non-race boots, and their insteps are too high for my "L" shaped foot. Nordica are better, but they are a tad short-lasted so a 22.5 in them is a toe squisher.

Having come out of some Head B5 RD race boots, I can definitely say that ramp angle, especially with a smaller boot, is a HUGE issue. Those boots KILLED my quads. And the forward lean and steep ramp really messed up my stance overall.

MY opinion is shell fit is most important. Find the shell that fits your foot volume and foot shape, and don't be afraid to get a custom liner. I had some Salomon XMax 90s that with the liners, actually fit really well, BUT liners pack, and pretty soon, I was adding foam everywhere to that liner to take up space.

 

[Ken_R]

I'm shopping for my first real inbound boot since I was a kid. I first moved out west, I went straight for a touring setup since I was mainly looking for a way to move efficiently for winter climbing, but I won a season ski pass and met a cute park rat and started skiing inbounds for about half of my days every season. I've been in a pair of Dynafit Mercuries and got a stiffer pair of the Vulcans when they started making them in unisex sizes. I'm a hard foot to fit (narrow and especially low volume from top to sole) so I just put MNC bindings on my inbound skis so I didn't have to boot shop, and then picked up a cheap pair of Lange RX 110 LVs off Craigslist so I could still demo at the handful of shops that use standard alpine bindings.

Now that they've discontinued the Mercury/Vulcan fit, I'm a lot more motivated to get a proper inbound boot and prolong the life of my touring boots. (And the Langes aren't it). I've been to a fitting and have a few contenders (Nordica Promachine, Tecnica Cochise, and Tecnica Mach1 LV), but still have a couple of questions about getting the right boot.

I'm concerned about the ramp angle, having spent close to 300 days in a flat touring boot. The Langes really burn up my quads when I ski them, but I'm not sure if it's the ramp angle or the fact that I'm compensating for the fact that they're pretty loose in the heel. Some sites I've read seem to say that there's a right ramp angle for everyone and it's just a matter of finding it; others note that the touring boots are flatter & more comfortable vs. the athletic stance of a race-inspired boot. Which one would you say is true? My fitter would prefer to adjust the ramp through binding shims, but that it would affect the ability to swap out boots, which I really value for travel.

Also, my fitter recommends the Nordica since it's so much narrower in the forefoot, and that she could do some modifications to stop the movement that I'm getting in the heel, but it also has the highest ramp angle. The Tecnicas are wider, but the heel fits perfectly out of the box, and it's the only brand I've tried where I haven't been able to shift my foot around in the extra space in the boot. Which factor would you say in the most important for fitting?

And also open to other super LV options - my feet were swimming in the Hawx Ultra and Salomon XMax, but I feel like there might be a few other options to track down and try on.

Thank you!

Where do you live/ski? Chris at SBF (Vail) got me an awesome fit in my Langes.

I wouldnt overthink it. A simple 4 buckle boot like the Lange or similar, that fits right will be perfect.

SBrown is right about the heel fit. It is essential that the heel is pretty much locked. If its loose you are in the wrong boots/liners. This can be fixed to some degree by a bootfitter.

Also, which Alpine bindings are you using? They affect the angle as well but honestly I ski different bindings all the time and dont notice the difference.

 

[Analisa]

Where do you live/ski? Chris at SBF (Vail) got me an awesome fit in my Langes.

I wouldnt overthink it. A simple 4 buckle boot like the Lange or similar, that fits right will be perfect.

I'm in the PNW. And in terms of the overthinking/fit right, that's kind of the kicker. Most boots fit pretty sloppy, and I guess I'm asking for what part of the boot fitting is most important. I've heard similar where the heel matters most, but the fitter I went to seemed to think it would be easiest to adjust that on the Nordica and that it'd be beneficial since the arch and forefoot are so much slimmer. Bindings are a Dynafit Radical ST2, Vipecs, and Salomon Warden 11 MNCs. With my other boots, I don't notice the bindings making any difference as I swap out skis.

 

[SBrown]

I'm in the PNW. And in terms of the overthinking/fit right, that's kind of the kicker. Most boots fit pretty sloppy, and I guess I'm asking for what part of the boot fitting is most important. I've heard similar where the heel matters most, but the fitter I went to seemed to think it would be easiest to adjust that on the Nordica and that it'd be beneficial since the arch and forefoot are so much slimmer. Bindings are a Dynafit Radical ST2, Vipecs, and Salomon Warden 11 MNCs. With my other boots, I don't notice the bindings making any difference as I swap out skis.

If the heel is tight, it's NICE to have loose toes!

 

[Analisa]

If the heel is tight, it's NICE to have loose toes!

What about the midfoot/arch? Still bueno or no bueno?

 

[neonorchid]

What about the midfoot/arch? Still bueno or no bueno?

If by midfoot/arch you are referring to the length of the boot in crossection when fitted with a close daignol line from base of heel to articulation point of foot/leg which is different then heel pocket fit then yes it is a very important aspect in boot fit. If the shell is too volumous there the foot will shift around in the boot.

 

[Analisa]

If by midfoot/arch you are referring to the length of the boot in crossection when fitted with a close daignol line from base of heel to articulation point of foot/leg which is different then heel pocket fit then yes it is a very important aspect in boot fit. If the shell is too volumous there the foot will shift around in the boot.

Didn’t quite follow the first part, but I have a lot of room in the midfoot when I’m doing those checks with just the shell (I mean, beyond the extra space from not having the liner in there), but when I’m putting them on with a liner & everything, the heels are locked in enough where I can’t shift them around in the boot.

 

[Ken_R]

Didn’t quite follow the first part, but I have a lot of room in the midfoot when I’m doing those checks with just the shell (I mean, beyond the extra space from not having the liner in there), but when I’m putting them on with a liner & everything, the heels are locked in enough where I can’t shift them around in the boot.

I usually look for a good shell fit in the instep, the heel and the sides of the foot. The instep is pretty crucial since a snug fit there will prevent heel lift as well.

 

[neonorchid]

Didn’t quite follow the first part, but I have a lot of room in the midfoot when I’m doing those checks with just the shell (I mean, beyond the extra space from not having the liner in there), but when I’m putting them on with a liner & everything, the heels are locked in enough where I can’t shift them around in the boot.

^I suspect @Ken_R is talking about the same. Let me try to word it different. Both the height and space of the boot from the articulation point between the top of the foot and lower leg which is generally measured as a diagnol line from the base of the heel to the articulation point. It could feel just fine until actually sking in the boot a few times.

 

[Analisa]

I usually look for a good shell fit in the instep, the heel and the sides of the foot. The instep is pretty crucial since a snug fit there will prevent heel lift as well.

Yep! But if it’s an either or between the heel and the instep/sides? I feel like I’m not explaining myself very well.

 

[neonorchid]

Yep! But if it’s an either or between the heel and the instep/sides? I feel like I’m not explaining myself very well.

You want both to be close fitting.

 

[Analisa]

You want both to be close fitting.

If that option doesn’t exist out of the box, which is easier to get there with work?

 

[neonorchid]

@Analisa, They go hand in hand. See if you can try one of the new Salomon S/Max boots, they should give you a better idea of what we are talking about. May even be the fit for you too.

 

[Ken_R]

Yep! But if it’s an either or between the heel and the instep/sides? I feel like I’m not explaining myself very well.

You might need a narrow last boot with a low instep. Its easier for a bootfitter to widen the shell a bit if needed. Making it smaller is done by adding padding to the liner. At least in my case on one of my pair of boots they had to make the instep a bit smaller by adding padding and in the heel as well. The sides were nice and snug.

So a bootfitter can work some magic but its best to start with the best shell fit possible and then make liner adjustments only if necessary.

 

[David Chaus]

Go see Jim Mates, Custom Boot Services. He doesn’t sell boots, but he is the best boot fitter around and can help you with an assessment of your foot/stance/alignment needs, as well as specific excercises (if needed) to address issues. He charges $100 for an assessment, then can suggest boots you might try, and will do a better job of custom fitting what you do buy (will charge a fee for any modications he does). He will want you to bring current boots and skis so he can see/measure binding delta and how that affects what you’re experiencing.

http://www.custombootservice.com/

 

[DanoT]

I was just at a PK session with the Western Canada Head rep and Head has a new innovation called Liquid Fit. There is a bladder that is attached to medial and lateral sides of the liner at the ankle and extending a little bit in front of the ankle on the side of the foot. So when your liners pack out or whenever you want to tighten the ankle/heel fit, a liquid with the consistency of suntan cream is pumped into the bladder at the ski shop. And it stays liquid and can even be pumped out of the bladder if needed.

Kinda beats the L-shaped foam pads that a shop will sometimes put between the liner and shell in an attempt to tighten a fit and address heel lift.

 

[Analisa]

@neonorchid I understand that's how it's normally/supposed to work, but in the two that I've found to be the closest fit, it's been either/or. I've tried on the S/Max and I probably swim in those the most, but what am I supposed to be looking for? If you know of a site with a good diagram, I'd be super appreciative. I work in apparel product design & love by a good schematic.

@Ken_R - these have all been the smallest ones on the market! (except I think the Redster race boots drop another mm off the last) I'm kind of worried I'm off the charts.

@David Chaus - he's been on my radar, but I like the idea of working with someone who does the out of the box fitting and the adjustments. There's one last Kryzma at one of the Sturtevant's shop and it sounds @Philpug's recs of the new Lange mold and the K2 Luv line could be options. (Knowing how much I hate how juvenile the "Luv" line is, they'll probably be my sole mates).