Wax and scraping questions

[jt10000]

That's if you don't include wax cleanup and time and stress of Wifey yelling at you for the mess!!!!!!

For nordic skiing and also alpine skiing on dirty snow where performance matters, even with the towel method you have to brush and perhaps even scrape a little. So you will have some dust and cleanup.

Less mess/cleanup than with other methods that require a full scraping, but still it gets around.

I suppose you could towel, then brush off outside without a bench (emergency parking lot style). Maybe I'll try that.

 

[GB_Ski]

With all the info on here about waxing recreational skis, I can't believe anyone outside the race circuit is still scaping. I use the blue shop towel technique @Philpug posted years ago. No mess (happy Wifey) and never looked back. Never noticed any recreational advantage to scraping doing back to back testing... and the scraping mess...Yuk!.... I haven't touched my scrapers or scraper sharpener in years. We've got too many skis to wax (20+) so I try to work smarter and cleaner not harder!

My own experience with that approach is I had to wax more often (after every day). I wax after every weekend or every other weekend. I do hot wax, scrape, buff. I prefer that.

If you really want to save time, use Phantom. I have them on my CT 1.0. Wax every 3-4 weekends, glide just as well.

 

[SlideWright]

My own experience with that approach is I had to wax more often (after every day). I wax after every weekend or every other weekend. I do hot wax, scrape, buff. I prefer that.

If you really want to save time, use Phantom. I have them on my CT 1.0. Wax every 3-4 weekends, glide just as well.

Well...I'm always waiting on my friends who have Phantom glide, especially on long traverses. It's not even close to the same glide, IME.

Life's too short for slow skis and snowboards.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I'm for the easiest, fastest, least painful, most effective method.

Going through the pain of getting there is good for a new tuner (and then we laugh at them).

 

[GB_Ski]

Well...I'm always waiting on my friends who have Phantom glide, especially on long traverses. It's not even close to the same glide, IME.

Life's too short for slow skis and snowboards.

Secret is that you still need to wax them, just not as often. I use Hertel on them every few weeks and have no issue gliding.

 

[Yo Momma]

For nordic skiing and also alpine skiing on dirty snow where performance matters, even with the towel method you have to brush and perhaps even scrape a little. So you will have some dust and cleanup.

Less mess/cleanup than with other methods that require a full scraping, but still it gets around.

I suppose you could towel, then brush off outside without a bench (emergency parking lot style). Maybe I'll try that

My Rotobrush is my best friend!

 

[Yo Momma]

My own experience with that approach is I had to wax more often (after every day). I wax after every weekend or every other weekend. I do hot wax, scrape, buff. I prefer that.

If you really want to save time, use Phantom. I have them on my CT 1.0. Wax every 3-4 weekends, glide just as well.

Waxing is overrated for rec alpine skiing. One of my buddies toasts all of our crew w/ delaminating skis that are chocked full of more core shots than I can count! One of his sets even had the edges falling off....... and he still toasted us!

 

[jt10000]

My Rotobrush is my best friend!

Unless you have a vacuum right next to it when it's running, that still produces dust.

 

[Yo Momma]

Unless you have a vacuum right next to it when it's running, that still puts dust in the air.

I'm a dentist by trade, so when waxing I double mask w/ a Class III over an N95. Between that, my protective glasses and my ear protection headset, I look like I'm doing SERIOUS work or surgery....... minus the open brew in the other room! After the dust settles, I vacuum for a min and all tidy.

 

[GB_Ski]

Waxing is overrated for rec skiing. One of my buddies toasts all of our crew w/ delaminating skis that are chocked full of more core shots than I can count! One of his sets even had the edges falling off....... and he still toasted us!

That's a bit silly statement. Bode Miller will beat me skiing two planks of 2x4 from home depot, but that doesn't mean I can ski 2x4. Bode Miller doesn't need tuning in rec skiing, I do.

 

[Yo Momma]

That's a bit silly statement. Bode Miller will beat me skiing two planks of 2x4 from home depot, but that doesn't mean I can ski 2x4. Bode Miller doesn't need tuning in rec skiing, I do.

Good point! You're on to something there. I guess Wifey and I usually ski so many days per season w/ so many different sets of skis that it's almost impossible to wax everything, all the time. As a result, I really don't sweat it much. It seems to generally change my experience very little unless conditions are extreme like late spring. Maybe waxing makes my ski bases last a little longer? As long as I don't ski them completely dry, I haven't really noticed that either......

Also you said; "tuning" ... I'm only referencing waxing for myself. For me in northern Vermont, tuning (sharpening & base texturing) is mission critical the rest is either cosmetic or optional. I guess drills are a little easier for me w/ a fresh coat of wax?

 

[GB_Ski]

Good point! You're on to something there. I guess Wifey and I usually ski so many days per season w/ so many different sets of skis that it's almost impossible to wax everything, all the time. As a result, I really don't sweat it much. It seems to generally change my experience very little unless conditions are extreme like late spring. Maybe waxing makes my ski bases last a little longer? As long as I don't ski them completely dry, I haven't really noticed that either......

Also you said; "tuning" ... I'm only referencing waxing for myself. For me in northern Vermont, tuning (sharpening & base texturing) is mission critical the rest is either cosmetic or optional. I guess drills are a little easier for me w/ a fresh coat of wax?

Oh, yes. I do edges every weekend.

 

[stevo]

Secret is that you still need to wax them, just not as often. I use Hertel on them every few weeks and have no issue gliding.

I have been going through a phantom disappointment phase. I am going to change to waxing my skis on top of the phantom treatment. I hear that the phantom treatment may cause the wax to last longer in some way, so perhaps less often will I need a wax..but phantom alone, as advertised, has been extremely disappointing to me. On certain snow it does ok, but in other snow it does absolutely terrible. Particularly alta powder conditions have been awful. When I say awful, I mean really awful. Can barely hike or skate on a flat even, buddies that I know are 10 turns behind me and slower skiers will easily catch and pass me on flats, but even my turns are less satisfactory it always feels like I'm skiing on sand, some sand worse then other sand.

What I notice is when the snow is not as cold, then when starting a run they will be a bit sluggish but as I slide, they heat up and go a bit faster...even gliding quite well occasionally on certain snow, but each run when I start out, they are sluggish at first. I think there is something about them needing to heat up in order to glide. On firmer snow they heat up faster. On powder and soft conditions, they don't heat up, they suck. I am going to be trying wax on top soon and hopefully you're tip above will pan out...

 

[Wilhelmson]

On Monday I waxed without scraping. We skied about 6 hours on Tuesday and the hardpack had scraped all the wax off except for some at the tips that don’t touch the snow. That night, I brushed with a nylon brush and applied some rub on glidewax. It was a huge difference the next day and lasted about half the day, Repeated that night and again, fast. Yesterday without the glide wax was slower.

To Yomma’s point above, we don’t really have to wax. For me it makes a nice glide so is worth it, but if I don’t get around to it no big deal.

 

[SlideWright]

I have been going through a phantom disappointment phase. I am going to change to waxing my skis on top of the phantom treatment. I hear that the phantom treatment may cause the wax to last longer in some way, so perhaps less often will I need a wax..but phantom alone, as advertised, has been extremely disappointing to me. On certain snow it does ok, but in other snow it does absolutely terrible. Particularly alta powder conditions have been awful. When I say awful, I mean really awful. Can barely hike or skate on a flat even, buddies that I know are 10 turns behind me and slower skiers will easily catch and pass me on flats, but even my turns are less satisfactory it always feels like I'm skiing on sand, some sand worse then other sand.

What I notice is when the snow is not as cold, then when starting a run they will be a bit sluggish but as I slide, they heat up and go a bit faster...even gliding quite well occasionally on certain snow, but each run when I start out, they are sluggish at first. I think there is something about them needing to heat up in order to glide. On firmer snow they heat up faster. On powder and soft conditions, they don't heat up, they suck. I am going to be trying wax on top soon and hopefully you're tip above will pan out...

It sounds like Phantom Glide is some very expense base prep wax.

 

[Wilhelmson]

sounds like Phantom Glide is some very expense base prep wax.

But have there been a lot of negative reviews now that its been around for a while?

 

[silverback]

I’ve been mostly happy with Phantom. I have it on three pairs of skis. I occasionally hot wax or liquid wax over it, especially for very cold and dry conditions. If I get passed on a flat cat-track, the faster skier is usually on stout, race or near race skis that I assume have been waxed.

I assume the regular wax/scrape/brush activity removes the “hairs” and dirt etc which helps keep the bases faster. I ski with several friends with phantom that almost never wax, clean, sharpen or grind and they usually keep moving pretty well.

 

[silverback]

I have been going through a phantom disappointment phase. I am going to change to waxing my skis on top of the phantom treatment. I hear that the phantom treatment may cause the wax to last longer in some way, so perhaps less often will I need a wax..but phantom alone, as advertised, has been extremely disappointing to me. On certain snow it does ok, but in other snow it does absolutely terrible. Particularly alta powder conditions have been awful. When I say awful, I mean really awful. Can barely hike or skate on a flat even, buddies that I know are 10 turns behind me and slower skiers will easily catch and pass me on flats, but even my turns are less satisfactory it always feels like I'm skiing on sand, some sand worse then other sand.

What I notice is when the snow is not as cold, then when starting a run they will be a bit sluggish but as I slide, they heat up and go a bit faster...even gliding quite well occasionally on certain snow, but each run when I start out, they are sluggish at first. I think there is something about them needing to heat up in order to glide. On firmer snow they heat up faster. On powder and soft conditions, they don't heat up, they suck. I am going to be trying wax on top soon and hopefully you're tip above will pan out...

Try hot scraping 2-3 times with a soft wax and sharp scraper. Dirty skis are slow. (Do you travel with skis on a roof rack?). Brush them out well then use a scotchbright. Then use a regular wax. (I like red Homenkol beta). If they are still slow, I’d look at the grind pattern/depth.

 

[stevo]

I took my phantom’d skiis in to the Alta ski shop to he waxed. I mentioned to the guy at the desk that they had phantom on them but don’t seem to glide very well. He looked me straight in the eyes and declared “phantom doesn’t work”

i got back the skis with wax and they glide noticeably better. Haven’t tried them in fresh snow yet but that is where phantom is particularly bad especially up at Alta where it is as cold and dry as it can get on most new snow days. Phantom slides like ass on that. I won’t be doing phantom ever again.

I do think on firmer snow it slides mostly fine and ok, especially as it heats up during a run. It does well on spring snow too. Real wax still glides better but it’s less noticeable on warmer or firmer snow. Fresh snow the difference is shocking. I have a buddy here who skis Alta all day on phantom and says it’s great for him. So I don’t know what else to say other then it was not great for me at all and never going back to it.

 

[stevo]

These kids Try hot scraping 2-3 times with a soft wax and sharp scraper. Dirty skis are slow. (Do you travel with skis on a roof rack?). Brush them out well then use a scotchbright. Then use a regular wax. (I like red Homenkol beta). If they are still slow, I’d look at the grind pattern/depth.

No I don’t use a roof rack. The phantom was applied by one of the best tuners in town, who actually worked on them three times trying to make them glide better for me, even redid the phantom a second time with new base structure hand tuned etc. they still didn’t glide well.